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Topic: Looking to Hang and push limits |
Stefan Robertson
From:
Hertfordshire, UK
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Posted 27 Feb 2022 9:05 am |
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So decided to use the term "hang" and be Jazz cool.
I'm challenging myself and upping my practice again on non-pedal HOWEVER I'm looking for some Pedal Steel songs/licks to attempt that have EITHER written Notes next to chords or Notation above.
Any ideas who/where may have some?
As it makes my journey much easier as I'm currently having to reference a C6/E9 chart with each pedal pushed down and lever pulled when trying to learn some of what is actually going on.
Youtube videos and MOST tab don't shorten this as no one seems to mention the Notes which makes the process twice as long to transcribe and learn. So any help would be appreciated.
I'm using E13#9/D# and I finally feel I'm starting at a point that I may be able to start to hang but wanted some extra help to shorten the transcribing.
_________________
Stefan
Bill Hatcher custom 12 string Lap Steel Guitar
E13#9/F secrets: https://thelapsteelguitarist.wordpress.com
"Give it up for The Lap Steel Guitarist" |
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Peter Lindsley
From:
United Kingdom
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Posted 27 Feb 2022 10:06 am
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Hi Stefan,
The Forum search engine is good for finding stuff. I just put "Lloyd Green tab" in the search & it turned up Jan Jonsson. Now his tab is high quality and features notation. Maybe the kind of thing your looking for. This post refers to Lloyds "Venus Moon" but he has others.https://bb.steelguitarforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=319324
He also has "Hogans Dream" which Mike Hearn managed to play on 8 String Lap Steel. I'm not sure but he may be using E13 also... Hear it hear https://soundcloud.com/mike-hearn-197524187/hogans-dream
Hope this helps
Pete
_________________
Sierra U12 E9/B6
Peavey Session 500 (split Cab) |
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Roy McKinney
From:
Ontario, OR
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Posted 27 Feb 2022 10:15 am
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| Jan Johsson transcribes some excellent E9th material. Search for Farewell Party (Lloyd Green "Revisited") for an example... |
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Stefan Robertson
From:
Hertfordshire, UK
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Posted 27 Feb 2022 12:11 pm
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| Peter Lindsley wrote: |
Hi Stefan,
The Forum search engine is good for finding stuff. I just put "Lloyd Green tab" in the search & it turned up Jan Jonsson. Now his tab is high quality and features notation. Maybe the kind of thing your looking for. This post refers to Lloyds "Venus Moon" but he has others.https://bb.steelguitarforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=319324
He also has "Hogans Dream" which Mike Hearn managed to play on 8 String Lap Steel. I'm not sure but he may be using E13 also... Hear it hear https://soundcloud.com/mike-hearn-197524187/hogans-dream
Hope this helps
Pete |
Thanks so much Gents. I had a listen not really floats my boat but I get and love the transcription layout is exactly what I was asking for. Anyone has any Jazz steel ones or orange blossom special or a really big classic like that
_________________
Stefan
Bill Hatcher custom 12 string Lap Steel Guitar
E13#9/F secrets: https://thelapsteelguitarist.wordpress.com
"Give it up for The Lap Steel Guitarist" |
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Stefan Robertson
From:
Hertfordshire, UK
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Posted 28 Feb 2022 1:58 am
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| Roy McKinney wrote: |
| Jan Johsson transcribes some excellent E9th material. Search for Farewell Party (Lloyd Green "Revisited") for an example... |
Thanks Roy.
I'll look to contact Jan and hopefully see if there is any material like Emmons.
If not its back to the slow job of translating then transcribing OUCH one song takes ages. 
_________________
Stefan
Bill Hatcher custom 12 string Lap Steel Guitar
E13#9/F secrets: https://thelapsteelguitarist.wordpress.com
"Give it up for The Lap Steel Guitarist" |
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Peter Lindsley
From:
United Kingdom
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Posted 28 Feb 2022 3:15 am
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This site https://www.jazzguitar.be/blog/category/jazz-standards/ may be of use it's for guitarists but it has the notation you require. Failing that you could always buy one of the Jazz Real Books. Alternativley search for & download any free Midi files that are out there. These can then be imported into free music notation software such as "Musescore3" or "Rosegarden"
atb
Pete
_________________
Sierra U12 E9/B6
Peavey Session 500 (split Cab) |
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Christopher Woitach
From:
Portland, Oregon, USA
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Posted 28 Feb 2022 8:48 am
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For what it’s worth -
If you really want to do this the best way, use fake books of jazz tunes. Yes, it’s harder than tab, to some (I find tab cumbersome at best), but you’ll learn your instrument much better, if playing jazz is your goal.
While transcribing is important, playing published transcriptions of great jazz solos is very valuable to learning the language of jazz, and finding out where it lays on the steel. I particularly recommend the Charlie Parker Omnibook - mostly correct, and Bird wrote the book on what we think of as straight ahead bop influenced jazz.
Don’t be afraid, it’s all there on your instrument, and will show you the patterns you need.
As far as tab, I learned more from going to buddyemmons.com and finding “Blues to Use” on the tab page than most books I’ve purchased over the years…
Good luck - no fear!
_________________
Christopher Woitach
cw@affmusic.com
www.affmusic.com |
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Stefan Robertson
From:
Hertfordshire, UK
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Posted 1 Mar 2022 5:32 am
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Thanks Chris and All gents. I use notation and don't rely on tab as its meaningless without having to then convert it into notation. Since I'm playing non-pedal 12 string E13#9/D# Tuning.
I'm feeling that jazz guitar sites give a basic guide but are innately missing that steel voicings that we use.
I just started tackling the real book. Definitely so much to learn. However what is missing is steel subs and movements. eg.
If I'm doing a II,IV, I in C - Dm7, G7, C I learnt about subs for the V chord however when you listen to the voicings that steel players use (usually for love of a 6th sound) they usually approach with completely different voicings than a Jazz guitar. To my ears at least. Like Emmons did on his C6th or Morrell on his E13
So for Guitar
Dm7 - (D, F, C)
G7 - (D, F, B)
CM7 - (C, E, B)
Advanced Emmons/Morrell Steel Approach
Dm7b13 - (D, Ab, C)
G9 - (F, A. B)
CM13 - ( C, A, B)
Yes I'm a theory nut as I internalise things better when I understand how things work. My learning style works that way.
Thoughts on great resources that teach these voicings with notation or at least notes written next to tab so I can transcribe and internalise.
Frank Freniere - thanks for the message and I will look at using some for sure. Any more that are related to Jazz standards or huge steel hits from Emmons.
As I posted here on my study journey of internalising
https://thelapsteelguitarist.wordpress.com/2022/03/01/steel-close-voicings-for-tension/
_________________
Stefan
Bill Hatcher custom 12 string Lap Steel Guitar
E13#9/F secrets: https://thelapsteelguitarist.wordpress.com
"Give it up for The Lap Steel Guitarist" |
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Bob Hoffnar
From:
Austin, Tx
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Posted 1 Mar 2022 6:06 am
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Why not skip the tab altogether? It has nothing to do with your tuning and has very limited information. Just transcribe the steel parts you want to learn by ear. Then write it out on manuscript and analyze all you want. That way you will be learning your tuning and the music. Putting someone else’s interpretation (tab) in the middle of this very simple and productive process seems counterproductive. The harmony used in the standard pedalsteel world isn’t very complicated.
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Bob |
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Bob Hoffnar
From:
Austin, Tx
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Posted 1 Mar 2022 6:27 am
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Look at Noel Boggs playing for idiomatic swing chord voicings and Joaquin Murphy. There is a book of transcriptions of Joaquin’s solos out that is fantastic.
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Bob |
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Stefan Robertson
From:
Hertfordshire, UK
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Posted 1 Mar 2022 6:48 am
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| Bob Hoffnar wrote: |
| Why not skip the tab altogether? It has nothing to do with your tuning and has very limited information. Just transcribe the steel parts you want to learn by ear. Then write it out on manuscript and analyze all you want. That way you will be learning your tuning and the music. Putting someone else’s interpretation (tab) in the middle of this very simple and productive process seems counterproductive. The harmony used in the standard pedalsteel world isn’t very complicated. |
Hmmm... I find a lot of the tension sounds and chords that Emmons/Morrell/ Jernigan use can be very difficult to transcribe outside of the basic jazz chords.
I need to train my ear more agreed but I also need to know the how and why? In my example above why on earth would you throw some of the dissonant/voicings as passing notes. Is it just a feel/based on tuning? If so why does it work?
I guess is what I'm hoping to better understand.
Another Example to better illustrate what I'm saying is Cherokee - The intro can be done with bog standard Jazz 7th chords but Emmons and Jernigan also throw in all sorts of tension/dissonant voicings which add that beautiful Steel color.
I can play the intro by both but when and why do they throw those dissonant tension sounds when they do. Jernigan especially loves to throw it in toward the intro and the endings. Emmons sometimes throws it in a melody line.
_________________
Stefan
Bill Hatcher custom 12 string Lap Steel Guitar
E13#9/F secrets: https://thelapsteelguitarist.wordpress.com
"Give it up for The Lap Steel Guitarist" |
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Frank Freniere
From:
The First Coast
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Posted 1 Mar 2022 7:13 am
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| Stefan Robertson wrote: |
Frank Freniere - thanks for the message and I will look at using some for sure. Any more that are related to Jazz standards or huge steel hits from Emmons.
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Couple of Emmons/jazz standards:
TWNBAY solo
Highland Swing |
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Scott Denniston
From:
Hahns Peak, Colorado, USA
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Posted 1 Mar 2022 7:15 am
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| Christopher Woitach wrote: |
For what it’s worth -
As far as tab, I learned more from going to buddyemmons.com and finding “Blues to Use” on the tab page than most books I’ve purchased over the years…
Good luck - no fear! |
Thanks Chris. Just what I needed right now. I had forgotten about "Blues to Use" being posted there. I do have that Parker Omnibook for guitar too. I'll dig that out and start reading notes. My plan is to start soloing on 6 with no pedals which seems to make reading the dots a little less daunting. |
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Christopher Woitach
From:
Portland, Oregon, USA
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Posted 1 Mar 2022 8:38 am
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Because you’re playing non pedal, in a different tuning than mine, you’re largely on your own.
One thing I can tell you, that you probably already know, is that the way to create upper extensions and altered chords easily is with substitutions.
Examples (simple ones)
Cmaj7 - play Emi7 for a Cmaj9
Dmi7 - play Fmaj7 for a Dmi9
G7 - play Db7 for a G7b5b9
Again, you probably know these, and there’s a lot more, but you get a ton of mileage without working too hard this way. All you need to define a chord is 3 and 7, everything else is color, and the universe gave us bass players for roots….
_________________
Christopher Woitach
cw@affmusic.com
www.affmusic.com |
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Christopher Woitach
From:
Portland, Oregon, USA
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Stefan Robertson
From:
Hertfordshire, UK
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Posted 1 Mar 2022 3:01 pm
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Pure Gold I had to figure these out by self study but would love to message and find out what other nuggets I'm missing.
| Christopher Woitach wrote: |
Because you’re playing non pedal, in a different tuning than mine, you’re largely on your own.
One thing I can tell you, that you probably already know, is that the way to create upper extensions and altered chords easily is with substitutions.
Examples (simple ones)
Cmaj7 - play Emi7 for a Cmaj9
Dmi7 - play Fmaj7 for a Dmi9
G7 - play Db7 for a G7b5b9
Again, you probably know these, and there’s a lot more, but you get a ton of mileage without working too hard this way. All you need to define a chord is 3 and 7, everything else is color, and the universe gave us bass players for roots…. |
_________________
Stefan
Bill Hatcher custom 12 string Lap Steel Guitar
E13#9/F secrets: https://thelapsteelguitarist.wordpress.com
"Give it up for The Lap Steel Guitarist" |
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Stefan Robertson
From:
Hertfordshire, UK
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Posted 1 Mar 2022 3:05 pm
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Reece was my universal tuning theory inspiration and I spoke to him only a few times and exchanged emails ...I once had access to a course from his. He gave me a website link on texaspedalsteel or something like that plus some hand written grips and chord concepts he had scanned. He was a mentor for me as well but I sadly didn't have enough time with him as I would've loved.
So it would be an honour to throw some ideas off of you Chris.
_________________
Stefan
Bill Hatcher custom 12 string Lap Steel Guitar
E13#9/F secrets: https://thelapsteelguitarist.wordpress.com
"Give it up for The Lap Steel Guitarist" |
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Christopher Woitach
From:
Portland, Oregon, USA
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