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Topic: :confused:Extended e9 tuning? |
Billy Cox
From:
Burkburnett, Texas, USA
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Posted 1 Oct 2006 3:41 pm |
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| Does anyone have a tuning chart on the extended E9th tuning? If not, can someone explain it to me? I have a 12 string w/ 4 pedals and 2 knee levers and 1 horizontal. Please help. Thanks Bill [This message was edited by Bill C Cox on 01 October 2006 at 04:42 PM.] |
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Bobby Lee
From:
Cloverdale, California, USA
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Posted 1 Oct 2006 3:53 pm
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Extended E9th has two more strings: low G# and low E. The low E matches the 6th string of a standard guitar, The second pedal raises the low G# to A, which matches the 5th string of a standard guitar.
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 Bobby Lee (a.k.a. b0b) - email: quasar@b0b.com - gigs - CDs, Open Hearts
Williams D-12 E9, C6add9, Sierra Olympic S-12 (F Diatonic)
Sierra Laptop S-8 (E6add9), Fender Stringmaster D-8 (E13, C6 or A6) My Blog
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Billy Cox
From:
Burkburnett, Texas, USA
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Posted 1 Oct 2006 5:42 pm
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tHANKS Bob FOR THE REPLY. iF i UNDERSTAND RIGHT, THE FIRST 10 STRINGS ARE TUNED TO e9 AND THE LAST TWO ARE TUNED TO g# AND e. cORRECT?
Thanks Bill |
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James Morehead
From:
Prague, Oklahoma, USA - R.I.P.
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Posted 1 Oct 2006 5:43 pm
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| So the "E" is the 11th string, and the "G#" is the 12th string, right? |
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Jim Phelps
From:
Mexico City, Mexico
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Posted 1 Oct 2006 5:55 pm
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| I always played 10 strings but then bought a D-12 with Extended E9 about 5 years ago, mine was setup with G# on the 11th and E on the 12th. [This message was edited by Jim Phelps on 01 October 2006 at 06:57 PM.] |
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Billy Cox
From:
Burkburnett, Texas, USA
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Posted 1 Oct 2006 6:35 pm
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| no JAMES THE 11TH string is G# and 12 is E THANKS BILL |
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Calvin Walley
From:
colorado city colorado, USA
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Posted 1 Oct 2006 8:40 pm
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clear something up for me , is the extended E-9th the same thing as a u-12 ?
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Mullen SD-10 3&5 / nashville 400
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Gil Berry
From:
Westminster, CA, USA
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Posted 1 Oct 2006 10:56 pm
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Nope. The extended E9 is just the E9 you're used to with two additional (11 and 12) strings - which are a low G# and a low E as explained above. The U12 is a universal tuning. It is a kind of combination allowing you to get the E9th sounds and the C6 sounds on one neck. The biggest difference, to someone used to a 10-string E9th tuning is getting used to having to hit a knee to get the low D note. U12 tuning from top down is F# Eb G# E B G# F# E(so far just like E9th, right)... then B G# E B. Notice no "D" string. Some players get the D by lowering the 8th string E, others by raising the 9th string B a step and a half. Some players have both changes. Lowering 4th and 8th strings to Eb (standard E9th change) puts the neck into B6th where the additional pedals (4 thru 7 or  do the same things as pedals 4 thru 8 on a D10 do to the C6th neck. If the guitar is set up right, it is possible to play the U12 as a single tuning utilizing ALL the possible E9th and C6th changes simultaneously. If it isn't set up just right, it becomes a "switchable" neck...E9th until the E to Eb change is "locked" in...making it play like the C6th neck. The difference between being "right" and "switchable" (to me) is the location of the LKR...You have to be able to hit pedals 4 thru 8 AND the LKR together or separately to play the entire tuning. Most of the time the LKR change is too close to the normal E9th knee position to allow this.. It's another one of those trade-off situations...moving the knee farther to the right makes playing the entire tuning possible -- But it makes the distance you have to move to engage that knee farther for the normal E9th change on that pedal. The best solution to this is to put the E changes (E to Eb and E to F) on the right knee so that you can put the less-often used changes (like B to A#) on that LKR...or so it seems to me. Anyway, to sum it up, the U12 tuning allows both the E9th and C6th sounds on a single neck. Hope I answered your question somewhere in the midst of my ramblings. |
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Jim Phelps
From:
Mexico City, Mexico
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Posted 1 Oct 2006 11:00 pm
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Nope, not at all. An extended E9 is basically the same as a normal 10-string E9 except with the two extra low strings. A U-12 is sortof an E9 upper half combined with a B6 lower half. It's a completely different tuning and setup, in fact I changed mine over to a U-12 to try it out and prefer it to the extended E9, am keeping it U-12.
Whoops, Gil posted his great explanation while I was writing. [This message was edited by Jim Phelps on 02 October 2006 at 12:14 AM.] |
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Jerry Hayes
From:
Virginia Beach, Va.
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Posted 2 Oct 2006 6:16 am
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I play a form of U-12 which is basically an extended E9 with the 2nd and 9th strings tuned to C#. With an extended E9 you can add all the U-12 changes you want. What you can do is just add another pull on your E's to D# lever which lowers your 9th string D to C#. Or you can tune the 9th to C# like I do. I played the "standard" U-12 for a long time but prefer what I have now.....JH in Va.
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Don't matter who's in Austin (or anywhere else) Ralph Mooney is still the king!!!
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Bobby Lee
From:
Cloverdale, California, USA
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Posted 2 Oct 2006 10:51 am
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The Extended E9th adds two low strings to the E9th. No extra pedals or knee levers are required.
The U-12 (otherwise called E9/B6) removes the low D string from the E9th, adds 3 low strings (G#, E and very low B), and adds the pedal changes from the standard C6th.
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Bobby Lee (a.k.a. b0b) - email: quasar@b0b.com - gigs - CDs, Open Hearts
Williams D-12 E9, C6add9, Sierra Olympic S-12 (F Diatonic)
Sierra Laptop S-8 (E6add9), Fender Stringmaster D-8 (E13, C6 or A6) My Blog
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Delvin Morgan
From:
Lindstrom, Minnesota, USA
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Posted 2 Oct 2006 3:11 pm
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| I have a S-12 ExE9 with 8 pedals and 4 KL's. It has all the E9 pulls a couple of C6 like pulls and some rather unconventional pulls as well. I love it, and have lots of fun trying to figure the darn thing out. |
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Calvin Walley
From:
colorado city colorado, USA
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Posted 2 Oct 2006 5:32 pm
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thanks to all for clearing that for me i was totally confused about it.
now . what are the advantages of the 2 extra lower strings ...meaning can you play certain songs that you can't on the standard E-9TH ?? i guess what i am asking is why would you need it |
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David Doggett
From:
Bawl'mer, MD (formerly of MS, Nawluns, Gnashville, Knocksville, Lost Angeles, Bahsten. and Philly)
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Posted 2 Oct 2006 5:49 pm
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Calvin, I tried an E9 extended 12-string, then moved to E9/B6 universal. I don't see much use for the extra low strings in traditional country pedal steel. They just get lost down in the mud with the bass and drums. The one exception would be Bobbe Seymour's Travis picking on the low strings of C6, which can also be done on extended E9 and a universal.
But in rock and blues, those low strings are great for rhythm comping with power chords. In jazz, those low strings are good for low harmony, particularly for solo pedal steel. Bill Stafford is a master of that on his 14-string uni. Reece Anderson also makes great use of low strings in jazz on his 12-string lap steel, or his Bb6/Eb9 12-string uni. And of course Buddy Emmons, Curley Chalker, Jim Cohen and others who play jazz on the C6 neck of D10s make good use of the low strings, which are essentially the same ones available on a universal, but not on Extended E9.
Finally, in fooling around a little with classical music, I find the low strings on my uni essential.
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Student of the Steel: Zum uni, Fender tube amps, squareneck and roundneck resos, tenor sax, keyboards
[This message was edited by David Doggett on 02 October 2006 at 06:52 PM.] |
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Jerry Hayes
From:
Virginia Beach, Va.
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Posted 3 Oct 2006 7:20 am
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With the extra two strings you can do some guitar things very nicely. An example is the intro to Roy Orbison's "Pretty Woman". On an extended E9 the notes are all there in the open tuning, nothing to add or pedals to push. Also you can play instrumentals like "Honky Tonk" etc. In this day and age I find that more and more I'm working with younger guitar players who've never even heard some of the classic stuff so I do it on steel. With my steel I've learned intos to "Folsom Prison Blues", "I Walk the Line", and a couple of other J. Cash things that the newbies aren't even aware of! Being a guitar player primarily I've always tried to have my steel setup where I could do most of the guitar things I knew on it or at least a "reasonable" facsimle. In one band I was in we had a downsizing and they actually let a 32 year old guitarist go, keeping myself and a fiddle player, mostly because of knowing the older stuff. On a C6th you can play some of the low string things but you don't have the right open strings for it!........JH in Va.
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Don't matter who's in Austin (or anywhere else) Ralph Mooney is still the king!!!
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Bobby Lee
From:
Cloverdale, California, USA
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Posted 3 Oct 2006 7:37 am
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For many years I played in a 4-piece band - guitar, steel, bass and drums. When the guitarist was playing fills or soloing, I went to the low strings and played a rhythm part.
Also, the low strings are, IMHO, necessary for rock. The E and A power chord positions are the basis for most rock vamps. They just don't work without that low range.
Some D-10 players can switch to the back neck for low rhythm parts and rock vamps. I was never able to find those parts on C6th until I added a middle D. I guess it's just the way my brain is wired wierd.
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Bobby Lee (a.k.a. b0b) - email: quasar@b0b.com - gigs - CDs, Open Hearts
Williams D-12 E9, C6add9, Sierra Olympic S-12 (F Diatonic)
Sierra Laptop S-8 (E6add9), Fender Stringmaster D-8 (E13, C6 or A6) My Blog
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