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Topic: How to improve overall soud |
Detlef Webert
From:
Europe - DE
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Posted 18 Feb 2022 2:41 pm |
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Hello forum mates,
what kind of tools (effects) do you use to improve your sound coming out of the Amp
in terms of full and rich sound in the whole frequency spectrum;- specially on C6th? |
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Bud Angelotti
From:
Larryville, NJ, USA
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Posted 19 Feb 2022 2:43 am
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Detlef - A full and rich sound, as you put it, usually comes from good technique, not effects, Yes, a good steel and amp, put mainly good bar technique and good picking technique. in the hands. Effects will make a full and rich sound just sound better. Reverb and delay are the most commonly used. Especially reverb.
But you really need to start with good technique to get a full and rich sound. IMHOP
Cheers!
_________________
Just 'cause I look stupid, don't mean I'm not. |
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Jack Hanson
From:
San Luis Valley, USA
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Posted 19 Feb 2022 5:41 am
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| In my opinion, a "full rich sound" is best achieved with an excellent instrument, an excellent amplifier, a quality volume pedal, and two shielded cables of as short a length as possible. In my experience, any given effect pedal will add its "effect(s)," but degrade the overall sound. Less is more. |
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Ian Rae
From:
Redditch, England
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Posted 19 Feb 2022 6:12 am
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Agreed. I have instruments and an amplifier that are much better than I am - that way I can detect improvement as it occurs.
I use a lot of effects when performing, but when practising I go with simple reverb - the Telonics amp is like a giant hi-fi and is totally transparent and unforgiving, so that I can hear every detail of what I'm doing whether I like it or not 
_________________
Make sleeping dogs tell the truth!
Homebuilt keyless U12 7x5, Excel keyless U12 8x8, Williams keyless U12 7x8, Telonics rack and 15" cabs |
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Bill Ferguson
From:
Milton, FL USA
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Posted 19 Feb 2022 7:20 am
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Practice, Practice and More Practice.
You can have the finest equipment in the world, but without the proper technique, you have wasted a lot of money.
IMHO
_________________
AUTHORIZED George L's, Goodrich, Telonics and Peavey Dealer: I have 2 steels and several amps. My current rig of choice is 1993 Emmons LeGrande w/ 108 pups (Jack Strayhorn built for me), Goodrich OMNI Volume Pedal, George L's cables, Goodrich Baby Bloomer and Peavey Nashville 112. Can't get much sweeter. |
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Doug Beaumier
From:
Northampton, MA
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Dale Rottacker
From:
Walla Walla Washington, USA
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Tom Gorr
From:
Three Hills, Alberta
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Posted 19 Feb 2022 7:50 am Re: How to improve overall soud
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| Detlef Webert wrote: |
Hello forum mates,
what kind of tools (effects) do you use to improve your sound coming out of the Amp
in terms of full and rich sound in the whole frequency spectrum;- specially on C6th? |
Would be helpful to know what you are currently using for gear in your signal chain.
The one thing that I have noticed is that the ears generally like to hear a heavily scooped sound. But that is not necessarily the right sound to shoot for, it lacks the midrange necessary for fullness. Adding too much bass to bring back fullness simply overloads the speaker response. Bass also requires a long travel path to develop properly, and most practice rooms are too small, so bass is overused and the tone gets mushy.
Set eq with ears not eyes. if you are getting sharp twang in the upper registers of the small strings, keep backing off the treble until that smooths out. Then use midrange to bring the fundamental tones back in, and you will find those tones are not shrill like you get with the treble control and you will also fatten up the lower midrange.
Last edited by Tom Gorr on 19 Feb 2022 11:33 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Bob Hoffnar
From:
Austin, Tx
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Posted 19 Feb 2022 8:16 am
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Technique will get you there. It’s about 90% of it. Once you are there equipment will help with the last 10%.
I think that intonation contributes to tone much more than generally assumed.
What I do to improve tone is practice with a little crappy amp and roll of all the bass. Then I try get as much low end in my tone by experimenting with picking. Then I do the opposite and practice getting highs in my sound.
_________________
Bob |
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Olli Haavisto
From:
Jarvenpaa,Finland
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Posted 19 Feb 2022 8:55 am
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I practice without an amp most of the time and try to get the best tone out of the unamplified guitar. When I plug in at the gig I’m 80% there already.
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Olli Haavisto
Finland |
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Donny Hinson
From:
Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.
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Posted 19 Feb 2022 11:49 am
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| Bob Hoffnar wrote: |
Technique will get you there. It’s about 90% of it. Once you are there equipment will help with the last 10%.
I think that intonation contributes to tone much more than generally assumed.
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Boy, what you said there is really important, Bob! I know that so many people compliment the pros on their "tone", but a lot of their perceived "great tone" comes from perfect intonation...and a great technique.  |
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b0b
From:
Cloverdale, CA, USA
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Posted 19 Feb 2022 12:08 pm
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I think that the addition of a short delay effect really adds a lot. It doesn't take much of it to make a big difference.
_________________
-𝕓𝕆𝕓- (admin) - Robert P. Lee - Recordings - Breathe - D6th - Video |
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Detlef Webert
From:
Europe - DE
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Posted 19 Feb 2022 1:14 pm
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OK, here's my setup:
ShoBud -> Steel Driver II -> Goodrich L-120 -> EchoPlex -> Vegas 400.
It's most probably a bit more of fine tuning of the equalizer, mid and treble.
I will work on that. |
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Tom Gorr
From:
Three Hills, Alberta
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Posted 19 Feb 2022 6:12 pm
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Can you check your speaker model? Peavey Black Widow? 1501 or 1502? Other speaker?
I have read (but never experienced) that the foam behind the screen in back of speaker at about this time in its life cycle deteriorates and clogs up the free movement of the voice coil. This mostly limits proper reproduction of the lower frequencies due to greater excursions at those freqs. I have read others complain of a thin undeveloped tone when that is plugged.
Good news is when its been cleaned - it works properly again.
Others might know how to clean it or instructions found in a websearch. |
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Tom Gorr
From:
Three Hills, Alberta
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Posted 19 Feb 2022 8:36 pm
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Buddy Emmons published his Vegas 400 Christmas Album settings as this:
Low @-12 dB
Paramid 11 o'clk
Shift @ 1 o clk
High @ -6 dB
Presence at +6 dB
You may see my emphasis on lower than expected bass and treble and more midrange is reflected in Big Es settings
Of course he may not have had the same speaker as you and probably not the same strings, steel or pickups. Nor hands.
And eqing for a studio mix with orchestration is different than playing at home with minimal backing.
But perhaps a good place to start. I would fix the mid and presence where buddy has them and just adjust bass and treble to taste. |
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Detlef Webert
From:
Europe - DE
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Posted 20 Feb 2022 11:54 am
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Tom,
thanks for the detailed info.
I will play around with the settings to find out what fits best for my ears. |
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Jim Sliff
From:
Lawndale California, USA
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Posted 20 Feb 2022 2:09 pm
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| b0b wrote: |
| I think that the addition of a short delay effect really adds a lot. It doesn't take much of it to make a big difference. |
Boy, do I agree with this!
Unless you are playing weird style and using lots of effects like me, also practice half the time with no amp as mentioned earlier - move your picking hand close to and away from the changer and notice how radically the sound changes - USE that when playing through an amp, as most steels nowadays don't have tone controls (they should!) - you can vary tone, smoothness of your playing, sustain (hitting a string TOO hard can actually reduce sustain and hurt tone as the string is moving in too many conflicting directions)...
But back to delay - a good analog delay sounds less "mushy" than reverb. Most amp reverb is also voiced to accentuate highs, and with a pedal steel it can create piercing frequencies - while analog delay covers all frequencies it's normally preferred by many players over digital delay, which can sound cold.
I use two analog delays set to different speeds and "tails" (repeats) and NO reverb except specific times when I will use a Fender Tube Reverb unit - which is also a full-frequency tube preamp.
Analog delays sound warm yet clear, providing depth without any hollow (inside a big pipe) loss of clarity. Sneaky Pete used an Echoplex and later a Roland Space Echo tape delay - the only reverb on his recordings was added in the studio - which is a different ballgame (not a little spring delay tank).
I think ampless practice and ditching reverb/using analog delay - and a GOOD tube amp - are the best ways to improve your sound (some of the best sounding pedal steel I've ever heard was played through Fender Deluxe Reverbs with 12" speakers!)
_________________
No chops, but great tone
1930's/40's Rickenbacher/Rickenbacker 6&8 string lap steels
1921 Weissenborn Style 2; Hilo&Schireson hollownecks
Appalachian, Regal & Dobro squarenecks
1959 Fender 400 9+2 B6;1960's Fender 800 3+3+2; 1948 Fender Dual-8 Professional |
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Ryan Bramlett
From:
Colorado, USA
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Posted 21 Feb 2022 8:55 pm
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| b0b wrote: |
| I think that the addition of a short delay effect really adds a lot. It doesn't take much of it to make a big difference. |
b0b and Jim,
I've only ever used my Peavey Session 400's reverb and have never tried delay. The only thing I have between guitar and amp is a Black Box. And my technique isn't at the point where I could justify pouring a pile of money into effects. But your recommendations are certainly convincing. Can you recommend a delay (or delay + reverb) unit to help get me there? Maybe an analog unit, since Jim seems to love those? |
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