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Topic: slide guitar sound on lap steel |
David Cook
From:
Florida, USA
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Posted 10 Feb 2022 10:55 am |
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Anyone know how to make a lap steel sound like a regular electric guitar slide?
Maybe a different shaped bar or strings too close to the neck? Or maybe a different make guitar? Jerry douglas sometimes sounds like this |
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Bill Hatcher
From:
Atlanta Ga. USA
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Posted 10 Feb 2022 11:10 am
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Tune it like a guitar. Try some lighter strings. Turn on the distortion. Play slide guitar licks with a glass slide.
I worked on Derrick trucks guitar years ago. I thought he would have typical high slide action etc. his action was just the same as a non slide guitar. It’s all in the touch. |
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Dave Mudgett
From:
Central Pennsylvania and Gallatin, Tennessee
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Posted 10 Feb 2022 2:09 pm
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My opinions herewith:
1. Some slide guitarists play in standard tuning, but I think a lot if not most play in an open tuning like Vestapol Open E or D (1 5 1 3 5 1) or Open G or A (5 1 5 1 3 5). I think the primary advantage to playing in standard tuning is that you can also fret notes as if playing standard guitar. I think that advantage mostly goes away on a lap steel, unless you can fret the steel overhand on your lap like Thumbs Carllile or Jeff Healey. But if you play one of these tunings in the same manner as a slide guitar player would - lots of sliding and typical slide guitar riffs - most any lap steel should get you in the general ballpark.
2. I assume you're talking electric slide guitar, and there are lots of different types of electric slide guitar sounds. So if you're going for a specific sound, listen to some good exemplars like Elmore James, Robert Nighthawk, Earl Hooker, Hound Dog Taylor, J.B. Hutto, Johnny Winter, Duane Allman, David Lindley, Ry Cooder, Lowell George, Bonnie Raitt, Sonny Landreth, Derek Trucks, and many more. Listen to a bunch and decide what you're going for - there are significant differences in sound and technique between many of these players. I'd also listen to some steel players that get in that ballpark - Freddie Roulette, Glenn Ross Campbell, and any of the excellent sacred steel players like Aubrey Ghent, Kashiah Hunter, The Campbell Brothers, Robert Randolph, Calvin Cooke, Bishop Ronnie Hall, Del Ray Grace, and many more. Bishop Ronnie and Del Ray are forum members and have linked to hundreds of clips in this style.
3. Figure out what the people who get the sounds you like use(d) to get their sound. It's a combination of choice of guitar, tunings, slide, strings, action, technique, amp, maybe effects or maybe not. Again, you can make do with most any lap steel, but you will not necessarily get a heavily wound lap steel pickup to sound like a Strat, or a lightly-wound Rogue lap steel pickup to sound like a Les Paul or SG very easily. And steel bars/slides do sound different from glass, ceramic, or other materials. But almost anything can get you in the ballpark.
4. It would be possible to lower a lap steel's nut to give fret rattle, but I can't see much reason to do that. Most slide players tend to try to at least avoid a lot of that rattling. I certainly don't miss it when I don't hear it in most situations.
5. String gauges vary all over the map. As Bill states, some players like Derek Trucks use relatively light gauge strings and a light touch on relatively low action setups. Johnny Winter stated in various places similarly - a typical 10-46 set in Open E and A tunings. Others like Sonny Landreth use 13-56 D'Addario medium gauge round wounds and a fairly high action to facilitate fretting behind the bar. Most anything can be made to work, but different approaches will likely sound and feel different. I'd experiment to find what you like.
I play slide guitar a lot. I have various guitars and lap steels set up different ways to get different sounds. I almost always set a slide guitar's action high enough to fret behind the bar, but generally not as heavy and high an action as Sonny. There is no set approach. A lot of the classic blues slide guitar players used whatever they could get their hands on and afford, and made it work. It didn't hurt that cheap guitars with high action happened to work well for slide. Others have been and are quite particular about their exact setup and sound. |
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David Cook
From:
Florida, USA
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Posted 10 Feb 2022 6:09 pm
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| Thanks everyone! |
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Mark Mansueto
From:
Michigan, USA
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Jeff Mead
From:
London, England
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Posted 11 Feb 2022 8:26 am
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| One big difference is for "slide", don't damp the strings behind the bar. |
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D Schubert
From:
Columbia, MO, USA
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Posted 11 Feb 2022 9:42 am
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| I play both lap and bottleneck. Listening to other players, I'm not sure that I could always discern one from the other in a "blind" test. Generally speaking, I hear a lot more attitude and soulful imprecision as a hallmark of slide artists. That's the player, not the gear. |
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Dave Mudgett
From:
Central Pennsylvania and Gallatin, Tennessee
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Posted 11 Feb 2022 11:11 am
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I think a real good place to start with technique and tuning issues on either slide guitar or using lap steel like a slide guitar is Arlen Roth's excellent Oak Publications book from 1975: Traditional, Country, and Electric Slide Guitar. goodreads.com has a bunch of sources linked - https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/739700.Slide_Guitar_Roth_With_CDROM_ - including some very inexpensive copies at abebooks - https://www.abebooks.com/servlet/SearchResults?isbn=0825601622. Note that Arlen also talks about country slide guitar and using techniques from dobro and steel guitar on slide guitar, and I think one can use this book for the reverse purpose also.
As far as muting behind the slide goes - it's a choice to mute or not. In fact, Arlen states in his book on p. 13:
| Quote: |
| ... You should also lightly drag at least one of your other three fingers over the strings behind the slide to dampen any overtones that might occur while playing. See the photo below. ... |
For me, it's not quite as natural to mute behind the slide as it is to mute behind the bar on steel, but it is possible and frequently useful. If you listen to a lot of slide players, I think you can hear pretty clearly when muting is used, or not.
Note that Arlen has his slide on the pinky finger in that photo. I'm mostly a pinky slider - also Johnny Winter and Sonny Landreth. For me, it's a bit easier to mute with the slide on the ring finger because my 3 middle fingers are so much longer than my pinky. So sometimes I will slide on my ring finger when I really want to control those overtones. The choice of slide finger can certainly influence what comes out and which of the various slide techniques work best, and slide players are all over the map on which finger to slide on and how they approach muting, or not.
Anyway - there is a particular characteristic sound of non-muted slide guitar, and if that's what you're going for on steel, don't mute. I think the key is to make that decision deliberately for its musical effect, on either slide or steel, and I think it's a good idea to be able to do both.
I also think one should not be too quick to jump on the "gotta have distortion" bandwagon. Slide guitar started on acoustic guitars, and many electric slide guitarists embrace a pretty clean sound. I think it pays to listen to some of the great acoustic slide players like Robert Johnson, Son House, Tampa Red, Fred McDowell, Bukka White, Blind Willie McTell, early Muddy Waters, and particularly Blind Willie Johnson, who it is generally agreed sometimes played the guitar with a knife on his lap. And a number of electric slide players are noted for their clean tones. Lowell George is known for his very clean, sustained slide guitar tone. I think a lot of the very best players have strong note definition in their playing, not swamped out by excessive distortion. A good compressor can help if you want more sustain without having to resort to a lot of distortion-induced sustain. |
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Tim Whitlock
From:
Colorado, USA
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Posted 11 Feb 2022 11:44 am
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| Jeff Mead wrote: |
| One big difference is for "slide", don't damp the strings behind the bar. |
This and an aggressive vibrato give it that sloppy slide guitar sound. |
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Dave Mudgett
From:
Central Pennsylvania and Gallatin, Tennessee
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Joe A. Roberts
From:
Seoul, South Korea
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Jack Hanson
From:
San Luis Valley, USA
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Posted 13 Feb 2022 4:45 pm
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| Joe A. Roberts wrote: |
| ...I don't believe blues steel player Hop Wilson was mentioned yet, he is worth checking out... |
Hop most certainly is worth checking out. The real deal. |
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Dave Mudgett
From:
Central Pennsylvania and Gallatin, Tennessee
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Posted 13 Feb 2022 5:13 pm
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Yeah, how could I forget Hop?! But I wasn't trying to be encyclopedic. And there are plenty more that I haven't mentioned. A search will uncover a lot.
The connection between steel and slide guitar is huge, if you permit it. Specific instruments and techniques are a means, not an end. |
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