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Topic: Very strange 9th string tuning issue - help? |
Marc Jenkins
From:
Victoria, British Columbia, Canada
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Posted 31 Jan 2022 3:25 pm |
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I'm pretty sure this is a new phenomenon on my Show Pro, but not 100%. I've only noticed recently (and since a string change.)
Anyway, with 10th string raised and 9th string lowered , both to C#, the weirdest thing happens. They can be very in tune with each other open, but the higher up I go, the flatter the 9th string is relative to the 10th. By the 12th fret, it requires almost a 1/4 fret slant to correct it.
Anyone encountered this sort of thing before? Any thoughts? Thanks! |
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Ricky Davis
From:
Bertram, Texas USA
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Posted 31 Jan 2022 4:01 pm
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Yes I have noticed that with "Not good maker of strings" even same gauge; I've noticed this inconsistency in String brands; that is why for the last 15 years; I use Jagwire or D'addarrio NYXL.
Ricky
_________________
Ricky Davis
Email Ricky: sshawaiian2362@gmail.com |
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Marc Jenkins
From:
Victoria, British Columbia, Canada
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Posted 31 Jan 2022 4:03 pm
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| Thanks Ricky. These are NYXL - might swap the 9th and see if that fixes it. Might have a bad one! |
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Ian Rae
From:
Redditch, England
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Posted 31 Jan 2022 4:39 pm
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Which way do you need to slant to correct it?
On 9 and 10 it is extremely likely that you are putting more bar pressure on 10 than 9, and as you approach the 12th the slightest difference will pull 10 way sharp.
Worth checking.
_________________
Make sleeping dogs tell the truth!
Homebuilt keyless U12 7x5, Excel keyless U12 8x8, Williams keyless U12 7x8, Telonics rack and 15" cabs |
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Marc Jenkins
From:
Victoria, British Columbia, Canada
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Posted 31 Jan 2022 5:00 pm
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| Ian Rae wrote: |
Which way do you need to slant to correct it?
On 9 and 10 it is extremely likely that you are putting more bar pressure on 10 than 9, and as you approach the 12th the slightest difference will pull 10 way sharp.
Worth checking. |
Thanks Ian, definitely checked that as my suspicions led me there initially. Bar has to go sharp on 9, way sharp! |
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Dale Rivard
From:
Ontario, Canada
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Posted 1 Feb 2022 7:59 am
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| Hi Mark, I've had this happen a few times over the years. I found the issue to always be the string itself(bad string). For me, the problem has only been on wound strings. In certain light, after striking the string and letting it sustain, I could see the string vibrating off centre. This is just a guess but I think the outer core is wound on the inner core incorrectly, causing intonation issues. |
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Marc Jenkins
From:
Victoria, British Columbia, Canada
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Posted 1 Feb 2022 8:00 am
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| Dale Rivard wrote: |
| Hi Mark, I've had this happen a few times over the years. I found the issue to always be the string itself(bad string). For me, the problem has only been on wound strings. In certain light, after striking the string and letting it sustain, I could see the string vibrating off centre. This is just a guess but I think the outer core is wound on the inner core incorrectly, causing intonation issues. |
Thanks Dale! I’ll keep my eyes open for that to confirm before I change the string. |
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Ricky Davis
From:
Bertram, Texas USA
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Posted 1 Feb 2022 8:32 am
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Yes Dale is correct.; It is mainly a bad string issue(I just pointed it out in string makers; but can be any maker of strings; got some weird wire to make from..ah..ha..
I think Danny from Jagwire told me once; it could be a accidental wrong gauge plain wire that gets wound to proper gauge.(so yes; wound wire and that was the only trouble with this issue I've ever run into; is with wound.
Ricky
_________________
Ricky Davis
Email Ricky: sshawaiian2362@gmail.com |
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Ian Worley
From:
Sacramento, CA
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Posted 1 Feb 2022 10:31 am
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Which string (9 or 10) is more in tune with the rest of the guitar with a straight bar? Do the open 12th fret harmonics align accurately with the 12th fret marker? If so it's not likely anything to with the string itself, and more an issue of required bar pressure as Ian R suggested above. It's the same issue that a compensated bridge on regular guitar is used to correct. A lighter gauge string might be all you need to correct it to an acceptable level.
_________________
All lies and jest, still a man hears what he wants to hear and disregards the rest - Paul Simon |
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Marc Jenkins
From:
Victoria, British Columbia, Canada
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Posted 1 Feb 2022 10:35 am
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| Ian Worley wrote: |
| Which string (9 or 10) is more in tune with the rest of the guitar with a straight bar? Do the open 12th fret harmonics align accurately with the 12th fret marker? If so it's not likely anything to with the string itself, and more an issue of required bar pressure as Ian R suggested above. It's the same issue that a compensated bridge on regular guitar is used to correct. A lighter gauge string might be all you need to fix it. |
String 10 is in tune. The 9th string harmonic at 12 is in tune but the fretted note is way flat. Definitely not a bar pressure issue, triple-checked that already.
I’m pretty confident this is a new phenomenon, been using same strings for 3 years and never noticed a tuning issue before. And I actually use 9&10 in unison occasionally…
Thanks! |
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Tom Gorr
From:
Three Hills, Alberta
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Posted 1 Feb 2022 1:23 pm
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Hi Marc,
It's certainly weird.
Maybe just try snugging your lower spring up on S9 a bit. I had some odd problems once on S9 and that seemed to fix it.
I had backed off on the spring lower tension to make it easier to hold my lever in. There seems to be a delicate balance of things on setting up that spring, and a change of strings might have changed a very narrow window of proper functionality sensitive to other things. |
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Bengt Erlandsen
From:
Brekstad, NORWAY
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Posted 3 Feb 2022 3:16 am
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If the pickup is too close to the strings then the magnetic field from the pickup can cause weird intonation issues.
B.Erlandsen
Zumsteel S12extE9 7+7 |
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Patrick Timmins
From:
Seattle
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Posted 6 Feb 2022 9:35 pm
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I had that exact problem with NYXL strings the first time I tried them. I think it was the 7th string. I wrote them about the problem. The intonation made the 12th fret harmonic happen at the 11th fret. I paid $17 to return them to the factory. They wound up sending me 2 new sets over a month later. That was about a year ago. I asked them what they thought was causing it and they gave no response. It was just a bad string. For the most expensive PSG strings, I expected better.
The replacement set was fine, but I don't think I will ever buy the NYXL strings again. The thought of using your last set of strings and having an unplayable guitar is just too much to risk considering you can not buy a set of PSG strings in a store Washington state, or the surrounding states as far as I am aware. Just buying lots of GHS and SIT strings now. Never had an issue with either of those brands.
_________________
Microphones, Recording, and lots of pedal steel guitars! |
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Bobby D. Jones
From:
West Virginia, USA
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Posted 7 Feb 2022 6:28 pm
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Check the core wire diameter in both strings new and old. In the new strings, 9th or 10th the core wires may be a different size and will not tune and change the tuning.
Good Luck finding the problem and cure.
God Luck on this project and Happy Steelin. |
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Donny Hinson
From:
Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.
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Posted 7 Feb 2022 6:48 pm
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Have you tried "seating" the strings in question? Heavier strings can develop an "arch" where they come over the nut, and this changes the contact point and scale length. "Seating" the strings is a process whereby you use your thumb or finger and push down very firmly on the string just ahead of, and behind, the nut. This bends the string over the roller, removing the "arch", and makes it conform better to the radius of the nut. It also increases the contact area, which helps with tuning stability, and maybe even sustain. 
The changer radius is usually much larger, and your picking hand rests on the strings, so this process seldom has to be done at the changer-end. |
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Marc Jenkins
From:
Victoria, British Columbia, Canada
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Posted 8 Feb 2022 12:54 pm
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Thanks for the thoughts and suggestions everyone. Donny, I just tried seating those two strings, no change.
Swapped the 9th string, all is good now. Will return to my local shop and hope for a replacement set. |
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