Value expectations vs reality

Michael Lester · From: Illinois, USA

I saw the video clip of Noel Boggs' daughter asking for $50,000 for her Dad's Fender.

Reminded me of a sad situation I faced a few years ago.

A local Dobro player passed away. He instructed his wife to contact me about selling his dobro (I had helped a number of families sell instruments from an Estate.)

He told her that "...this instrument will fund your old age." Her expectations were in the $20,000 range.

Sadly, husband Bob's Dobro was a common model, in well played condition - easily available in the market for $900 - $1500. On breaking the news as softly as I was able, she accused me of 'trying to rip her off".

Karl Paulsen · From: Chicago

Ouch.

The parallel realities are that:

1) Vintage, American Made Acoustic and electric guitars and basses are fetching quite high amounts of money.

2) There are alot of instruments that will not get that kind of money and alot of folks will be unhappy with what they are offered.

In electric instruments the common denominator for high value seems to be instruments that are most connected to the rock and and roll fantasies and nostalgia of middle-aged (and older) Americans with disposable incomes. If that dobro had a major brand regular acoustic, the value might have been much higher. unfortunately there aren't alot of lawyers, doctors and stockbrokers out there dreaming of emulating their musical heroes' rocking riffs on Dobro.

Same thing happens with alot of collectibles. There is a definite segment of items that fetch alot of $ but far more that are likely to be over valued by their owners.
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Allan Revich · From: Victoria, BC

Perhaps the best thing to do in cases like these is to help the seller post it on Reverb and EBay at whatever price they believe it’s worth, while also telling them that their expectations are unlikely to be realized.

At some point in the not very distant future they’re bound to ask you to help them get “get whatever you can” for it.
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Michael Butler · From: California, USA

i had the same thing happen to me when a drummer friend died of an overdose. his wife wanted me to take possession of the drums and sell them. i told her i'd shop around for her but didn't have the room for them. when i told her what she could get, she got mad at me and said i was ripping her off. i suggested she get someone else to sell them. turned out, another friend of mine got involved and it turned into a real mess. sometimes it is better not to even get involved.

play music!
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Cartwright Thompson · Posted 16 Jan 2022 11:17 am

As the great Barney Fife once said: “You try to do the right thing but what do you get? Heartaches, nothing but heartaches!”

Noah Miller · From: Rocky Hill, CT

Yeah, I've seen people conflate sentimental value with market value, and the results are usually not pretty.

I've also seen folks who bought a top-of-the-line pre-War steel for pennies in 1990 give hideously low appraisals, because "that's what I paid".

Both situations can benefit from independent appraisals from vintage instrument dealers, even if you need to pay a few bucks for something in writing. They may be off by 10%, but they're probably not going to be off by 200%.

G Strout · From: Carabelle, Florida

I have run into that problem frequently. I don't try to help friends liquidate anything anymore but I occasionally buy and sell vintage guitars, amps and motorcycles. Now when I am looking at a vintage piece and they tell me "This belonged to my late Husband, Dad, Brother or Uncle. I know in my mind that this is just not going to happen. I turn on my heel and walk out the way I came in.
I found a Ducati 900ss (1977 model as I remember.) It had been sitting under the carport for Lord knows how many years. After months of driving by the home one day I saw someone outside. I immediately pulled in and started a conversation with the guy about the bike. Engine was locked, carbs were filled with gelled fuel and assorted gunk, seals were shot to hell, finish, was bad and the seat and tires were rotted. He told me he couldn't take less than 25,000. It was his late brothers machine. He added he saw one selling for 30K on cycle trader. End of conversation. Sorry about your brother, have a good one. Outta' there!
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Dave Mudgett · From: Central Pennsylvania and Gallatin, Tennessee

No good deed goes unpunished.

I used to own/run a guitar store, so I get this kind of request periodically. I have made a rule to not ask to buy something in these circumstances. If they ask me to help find a buyer for them, I will only help them make a contact, and then only if they give me a realistic asking price - I will not be a party to ripping someone else off with a bloated price. In this case, I think a simple "sorry, but I don't think I can help you" is the best response.

Ultimately, I have come to the conclusion that it's a bad idea to tell someone that their 'heirloom' is worth way less than they want, regardless of the truth. At that point, I just suggest to get professional help like an appraisal from a reputable source, or whatever else will make them comfortable about what something is worth. I need no more sturm and drang in my life. I like to help people, but this kind of thing turns into a mess too often, with bad feelings all around.

Michael Lester · From: Illinois, USA

Sad that I had to have the widow face reality. I'm not a buyer or seller of instruments, but over the years I assisted a number of musician's Estates with the sale of their loved-one's instruments.

Bob (the deceased) was a nice fellow who somehow equated his instruments age - to $value - without the handicap of knowing that there were 1,000s of the model produced.

A common thread that typically runs through the musical instrument 'estate' sales right now is that most of the inheritors were not raised in the computer world / internet environment. They wouldn't know how to start marketing the instrument(s) on line.

My promise has been to help them get a bona-fide, realistic price.

David Ball · From: North Carolina High Country

Try to get rid of a piano these days!

Dave

Glenn Wilde · From: California, USA

Jack Hanson · From: San Luis Valley, USA

Willis Vanderberg · From: Petoskey Mi

This is exactly why I keep all my instruments, amps effects and so forth in a book.
All are clearly identified and with a price to sell range.
At my age, 88 I don’t want to leave my wife with a big problem.
I have a very great nephew who has agreed to help.
My worst fear was that she would sell them for what I told her I paid for them…lol
As far as appraisals are concerned, a good friend who owned a small music store called me said, wait until you see the Sho Bud steel I bought today.
Si I went down looking to see a nice Bud. He pulled it out and set it up. I ask how much did you pay for it, he said fifteen hundred dollars. He said I had it appraised by this famous Nashville appraiser.. I said did he see it. The answer was he appraised it over the phone.
Well I informed him, what you have is a Maverick and worth maybe three to four hundred. We never spoke again.
I posted a 1956 Fender Esquire on this forum a few years ago for eighteen thousand. Reverb said it was worth eighteen to twenty Thousand. I ended up selling it for fifteen.

Allan Revich · From: Victoria, BC

The market is a cruel mistress. Nothing on this earth is worth more than someone else is willing to pay for it.

Add to that immutable fact, individual circumstances like how badly and how quickly the seller wants to see cash in their bank account, and values become very flexible.

A collector/musician slowly downsizing can post and wait for the best offer, judging the market in real time. A spouse or child inheriting a bunch of old guitars is more likely to throw everything into the back of the van, drive to the nearest music store, and walk away happy cash in hand—for whatever the store was willing to pay.

Even for exceptional instruments it’s probably wiser to give beneficiaries the name of a trustworthy business with a solid reputation. 60% - 70% of full retail on a high end guitar is better than 100% of a crappy offer.
_________________
Current Tunings:
6 String | G – G B D G B D
7 String | G6 – e G B D G B D (re-entrant)

https://papadafoe.com/lap-steel-tuning-database

Nic Neufeld · From: Kansas City, Missouri

Tal Herbsman · From: Wisconsin, USA

great topic. agree with all of the above except that as far as I can tell from speaking with some of my cohort (the aforementioned middle aged dude with minimal talent and some disposable income) SRV and John Mayer seems to be the dominant marketing forces in that market.

I can't think of a scenario where a steel instrument would go for much more than 15 grand or so in our little world. I've been making a mental note of historically significant instruments for a few years:

there's this:
https://www.retrofret.com/product.asp?ProductID=8678

which as far as I know is the most expensive historical instrument on the market. It's been for sale for at least 3 years.

Jim Palenscar has had Murphy's last guitar on consignment for a while. It's a beauty @ $7500.

Bigsby consoles seem to have stabilized recently in the 10-15K range, at least on the forum. there may be some other market I know nothing about. Not sure what speedy west's sold for.

in the PSG world the only vintage instruments that get that kind of value are mid 60's era Emmons guitars. Hughey's Zum just went for about 7K. I think the only instruments that would fetch much more would be Buddy's blade or Lloyd greens fingertip but that's just speculation.

My only question is if this market is going to weaken slowly with time or not. My guess is the former but I have no idea.

I think we're lucky because people with earthbound incomes can actually conceive of buying their hero's instrument unlike the guy that dreams about robben ford's dumble.

Jeff Mead · From: London, England

Ryan Lunenfeld · From: Colorado, USA

An issue with valuations nowadays is when people are using reverb/ebay asking prices as prices. Rarely do they sell for the asking prices that are usually 200-300% higher than normal...but after they get a sale 10-20% gets taken away from fees(both sides).

Which makes the market even weirder, it's ruined the vintage synthesizer world. I'm glad it hasn't hit the lap steel world too much yet. Although I am finding it hard to find a nice ricky b6 or the like for a reasonable price, after needing emergency funds I sold them way under what people are asking. To be honest I just couldn't find buyers!

I like lap steels this way, low demand, and can get greats for relatively good prices... and not easy to sell!

Having sold a Frying Pan(great deal for the guy who has it now, and loves it!)...I see some of these prices of people who inherit them thinking they're worth $10k and will get that...rather delusional.

John Viterito · From: New Jersey, USA

Speaking of pianos, my mother had a player piano when she went to her reward, a later model in great condition, with about eighty rolls to go with it. We asked a fair price at the time for it (~$300 as I recall?). People were offering $25, $50 DELIVERED. It was in wonderful shape and rather than get ripped off and “get whatever we can for it”, we finally donated it. Moral of the story: Charging way too much for ANY instrument is fool’s errand, but the opposite also occurs way too often. Never, EVER undersell any good instrument for less than what it is worth. Getting ripped off works both ways.
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Emerald Solace acoustic laps and Rukavina steels. Can't play, but I try!

David Mitchell · From: Tyler, Texas

Only if Keith Richards of the Rolling Stones used a pedal steel during a huge concert to make one big screaming open slide up the neck then Angus Young of AC/DC took an axe and split it into two pieces would the two remaining pieces be worth 50 to 100k in US dollars.
It usually will be purchased not by a musician but a CEO of Microsoft or APPLE. Then the tangled mess with strings dangling and wood chips would be placed behind glass in a rock museum for the world's visitors to look at saying "Just think, that's the pedal steel Angus Young chopped to pieces after Keith Richards made that incredible slide on the Hounds of Hell Tour."

Eric Gross · From: Perkasie PA, USA

How about this Jerry Garcia 1969 Fender Twin chassis for $17K? It definitely has that open, airy sound......

David Mitchell · From: Tyler, Texas

Karl Paulsen · From: Chicago

Dang, if the page is right, that "lot" (as in lot of junk) actually sold for $17k. Wow.
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