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Topic: Larger nut roller diameter |
Tom Campbell
From:
Houston, Texas, USA
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Posted 11 Jan 2022 2:23 pm |
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Will replacing the original small nut roller with a larger diameter nut roller throw off the original intonation (strings neck length)?
Also, will a larger diameter nut roller adversly raise the string height at the nut to where it is higher than at the fingers height? |
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Georg Sørtun
From:
Mandal, Agder, Norway
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Posted 11 Jan 2022 4:27 pm Re: Larger nut roller diameter
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| Tom Campbell wrote: |
| Will replacing the original small nut roller with a larger diameter nut roller throw off the original intonation (strings neck length)? |
No.
| Tom Campbell wrote: |
| Also, will a larger diameter nut roller adversly raise the string height at the nut to where it is higher than at the fingers height? |
Yes, unless you lower the roller-axle to counteract the raise caused by the larger diameter. |
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Chris Lucker
From:
Los Angeles, California USA
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Posted 11 Jan 2022 5:28 pm
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Tom, you ask: "Also, will a larger diameter nut roller adversely raise the string height at the nut to where it is higher than at the fingers height?"
We cannot answer that question, because you have not told us if currently the string height at the nut is:
a. the same as the height at the changer
b. lower than the height at the changer
c. higher than the height at the changer?
A piece of unsolicited advise about changing nut rollers is this: The fit of the rollers is more important than the size. Overly wide rollers that must be lapped are fine, but rollers that are too skinny to fill their slots may well get buzzy and you may need to slop them with oil to keep them quiet and that will hurt sustain.
_________________
Chris Lucker
Red Bellies, Bigsbys and a lot of other guitars. |
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Tom Campbell
From:
Houston, Texas, USA
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Posted 11 Jan 2022 7:04 pm
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Thanks George...a small diameter nut roller axle would lower the height to match the finger height.
Just wonder if the smaller/thinner nut roller axle wound now be too loose in axle slot? Hummm. |
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Chris Lucker
From:
Los Angeles, California USA
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Posted 11 Jan 2022 7:57 pm
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When I have replaced the original string ball ends that Sho-Bud once used for rollers with larger diameter rollers, I had to mill the individual roller slots deeper to accept the larger diameter rollers, otherwise the axle did not seat fully and the rollers bottomed out. I have machined out of Nickel Silver rod graduated string groove depth rollers, but that involved a lot of lapping to make the rollers fit their individual slots with no play. I found the roller nut slots were never of consistent width.
You can with an end mill lower the axle slot height and deepen the individual roller slots if you want to lower string height. I make it sound easy, but I have a Bridgeport. You could lower the roller slots with a file, but I would not recommend lowering the axle slot with a file. The original slots were cut with slitting saws (like you would use to machine a slot in the head of a screw) or end mills. An end mill was used on the early Emmons keyheads with the “blind” roller axle slot — closed at the treble and bass sides.
_________________
Chris Lucker
Red Bellies, Bigsbys and a lot of other guitars. |
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Georg Sørtun
From:
Mandal, Agder, Norway
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Posted 11 Jan 2022 9:05 pm
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| Tom Campbell wrote: |
| Thanks George...a small diameter nut roller axle would lower the height to match the finger height. |
What?
The roller-axle diameter should be just small enough to let the rollers rotate freely on it. Larger-diameter rollers require the center of that axle to be seated lower, regardless of the rollers outer and inner (hole) diameter.
If the axle diameter is made much smaller than the rollers inner (hole) diameter, the roller won't rotate stable on the axle during raises and lowers, and then you may end up with real pitch-stability problems because the rollers may move (however slightly) back and forth with the string. |
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Tom Campbell
From:
Houston, Texas, USA
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Posted 12 Jan 2022 7:14 am
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Yes George, I agree with that. I should have indicated I would get a new axle the same diameter as the new rollers hole. I would be changing out all the rollers with the larger diameter rollers and a new axle.
My concern is the axle grove in the nut base accomodating the smaller diameter axle. I could see problems if the new smaller axle flops/shifts around in the grove. |
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Tom Campbell
From:
Houston, Texas, USA
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Posted 12 Jan 2022 7:24 am
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Chris, I think you address the problem I just referred to.
Sounds as though a entirely new nut assembly is required.
Modify the current one is not pratcial unless you have the proper machinery to do the job...hack-saw and a bunch of files won't get it! |
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Richard Sinkler
From:
aka: Rusty Strings -- Missoula, Montana
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Posted 13 Jan 2022 9:50 am
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Out of curiosity, what is your logic behind wanting larger rollers?
_________________
Carter D10 8p/8k, Dekley S10 3p/4k C6 setup,Regal RD40 Dobro, Recording King Professional Dobro, NV400, NV112,Ibanez Gio guitar, Epiphone SG Special (open D slide guitar) . Playing for 55 years and still counting. |
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Tom Campbell
From:
Houston, Texas, USA
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Posted 13 Jan 2022 10:45 am
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Richard,
To reduce hysterisis...especial on lowering a full step on 8 string E (E>D).
There are a number of articles explaining a larger nut roller diameter will help in this problem.
My other guitar, Mullen HW PRP, has larger nut rollers and no return problems what-so-ever. Anf yes...I've tried ALL the other suggested issues that cause this problem. |
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Donny Hinson
From:
Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.
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Posted 16 Jan 2022 7:22 am
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| Tom Campbell wrote: |
My concern is the axle grove in the nut base accomodating the smaller diameter axle. I could see problems if the new smaller axle flops/shifts around in the grove. |
If the groove where the axle seats was a "V", there'd be no such issues, regardless of the axle diameter.  |
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Tom Campbell
From:
Houston, Texas, USA
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Posted 16 Jan 2022 8:03 am
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| Thanks for the info Donny...unfortunately the groove is square. |
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