Help me decideâ€¦.Emmons vs Williams

Charley Paul · From: California, USA

Hi friends,

Iâ€™m downsizing from a D10 to a SD10, and I have two different guitars available for me to buy. The first is an Emmons Lashley Legrande with a 108N pickup, and the other is a Williams SD10 in a lacquer finish with a Bill Lawrence 705. Both guitars can be set up to my specs.

I feel fortunate to be choosing between two amazing guitars, and I have no doubt that either will be outstanding. That being said, Iâ€™ve got little experience with an Emmons, and no experience with a Williams (beside playing 6 string at a few gigs next to a Williams player who sounds terrific).

Iâ€™d love to hear your thoughts and opinions to help me think it overâ€¦.I want a full sounding, warm and growling tone that is robust and not thin. It will primarily be a recording guitar.

Thanks!

Jon Light · From: Saugerties, NY

All anyone can do is give you things to consider toward your final choice. To my mind, an advantage to the Williams is the long history of progressive engineering. There was no resting on 'it works, it's always been good enough, so it will stay the same'. As such, I would want the Williams to be a 700 model. Otherwise you are not getting the best advantage of that aspect. And of course you are also getting a guitar whose maker is still in business.
I'm not talking slam dunk here. Emmons is Emmons.

Charley Paul · From: California, USA

Thanks for your answer, Jon. Yes, I agree, itâ€™s about personal choice, but your experience and insight is exactly what I am looking for to help me make a decisionâ€¦..someone to think of the things that I donâ€™t consider!

Bob Carlucci · From: Candor, New York, USA

The Willy is a great guitar, so is the Emmons... Personally, I always think "down the road" when it comes to musical instruments that are a sizable investment... Nothing is forever, and perhaps one day you will want something else... In that case, classics typically retain value better, and are usually easier to sell or trade... All else being equal- tone, playability, condition, I might go for the Emmons simply because of the name factor.. Think of the Sho Bud,,, Compared to most they are more primitive mechanically, and are often more finicky.The finishes are often worn, as are the mechanisms.. Yet guys pay a premium for them because of the name and history...

I would always buy a $2000 Fender amp before a $2000 modern hand wired amp for the same reason.. So much easier to move when its time for a change...
If this is a forever guitar, that you will never sell or trade, in my opinion its a wash... Both will serve you well, and will look, play and sound great .. bob
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Charley Paul · From: California, USA

In terms of stability and mechanics, will the Emmons be harder to play? Will it require more maintenance? Will it hold tune?

This, of course, assumes that the Emmons is well adjusted, setup, and maintainedâ€¦.

Jon Light · From: Saugerties, NY

I've never played an all-pull Emmons. My guess, strictly in terms of age, vs a 700 Williams, is that the Williams will have lighter touch. I could be wrong. I'm just thinking in terms of the evolution & innovation that steel guitars have enjoyed over the years. The Williams has a nice, light pedal feel. Not as light as a Mullen G2 but lighter than some older steels I have or have played.
Assuming good condition & state of maintenance, I don't see any stability or maintenance issues or advantage either way. Holding tune? Yes.

Paul Sutherland · From: Placerville, California

I owned a Williams and could never get the tone I wanted. I now have a Rains SD10, which some say is very much like an Emmons Le Grande, and it sounds much better to me. But my main steel is a push-pull Emmons so there's my bias. Some swear by Williams, but not me.
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Asa Brosius · Posted 5 Nov 2021 7:34 pm

There's so much variation in guitars of the same model- I'd make it a priority to play both if you can. Worth mentioning, the description of the tone you're after sounds great- since your mandate is primarily recording, often a 'thinner' tone sits better in mixes.

Hugo Knef · From: Vallejo , California

I am in Vallejo if you want to try my Williams S10 700 series. It has a wood neck and a Wallace True Tone single coil.
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Mike DiAlesandro · From: Kent, Ohio

I would consider which model has less cabinet drop as well. I've read that some Williams have more of a cabinet drop than other similar built steels.

Something to consider.... Cool

Tony Glassman · From: The Great Northwest

Both are great instruments, but to my ears, the Le Grande has that â€œEmmonsâ€ sound. The LG2 plays nicely and is easy to work on.

K Maul · From: Hadley, NY/Hobe Sound, FL

I never had a big problem with thin tone or â€œcabinet dropâ€ on my two Williams keyless D10s.
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David Nugent · From: Gum Spring, Va.

I own both a Williams and an SKH Emmons 'LeGrande'. The Williams (lacquer body, wood necks) leans more toward the fat, full, Sho-Bud type tone whereas the Emmons tends to be more aggressive in tone (my description is, "In your face").

Note, just my opinions only:
1) My Emmons came with a '108N" installed and could not dial in a tone that I liked! Did not seem to have that "growl" that Emmons guitars are known for. Replaced it with a Telonics '409' and now to my ears, it sounds as an Emmons was intended to sound.
2) Coincidentally, my Williams came with '705' pickups, replaced them with '710's and am much more pleased with the tone. The '705' to my ears has a "brittle" sounding top end. As mentioned, my opinions only, yours may vary.

Steve Mueller · From: Cincinnati, Ohio, USA

I've had 3 Williams 700 series steels built for me in the past 10 years, with a fourth one(Wide Body S12), on order. All are laquer body, wood necks with humbuckers. I've got very little Emmons experience(I owned a D10 for a short while on the 70's). I can say that to my ears, the tone is not what I consider thin. I've owned and tuned with a Peterson Model 450 strobe tuner since the 70's so I can check accurately to the number of cents cabinet drop and raise. My 3 steels have had 1.5 to 2 cents drop string 4 with AB pedals pressed. I think for 3 steels built at different times this would be pretty representative of what you get. It's beautiful, holds a tune well, plays smoothly. I have raise helpers and pitch return comps(which avoids hysteresis, a problem with a lot of guitars, on mine all changes return to pitch). Also a Williams SD10 in the wheeled case weighs 42 lbs. I would bet the Emmons is 10-15 lbs more in the case.
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Jon Light · From: Saugerties, NY

Just to keep things well informed, my bought-new 2019 Williams SD-12 with aluminum neck has substantial "cabinet drop" (or whatever it should be called).
7-8 cents on the plain strings, a lot more on the lower strings.

Steve Mueller · From: Cincinnati, Ohio, USA

Increased cabinet drop always associated with aluminum necks and increased also by plain 6th, also by putting your AB pedals closer to the center of the guitar(for example "zero pedal" in first pedal spot on left instead of "A" pedal). I use a wound .022. I've experimented up to W.026 with no change in cabinet drop. Cabinet drop on my wound 7th and 8th also 1.5-2 cents. There are so many variables......best to play each one first of course. Once you do that, you may find you clearly like one or the other best.
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2016 Williams D12 8 x 8, 2015 Williams D12 8 x 8, 2023 Williams S12 4 x 5, Milkman Amps, 1974 Gibson Byrdland

John McClung · From: Olympia WA, USA

If you can try both guitars out, you'll likely find one "fits" you better in regards to pedal and knee lever placement. To me, that's a huge factor. And some guitars have a "voice" that just speaks to me, notes jump off the neck somehow. There are many dead guitars around, of all brands, even Emmons p-p.
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Roger Rettig · From: Naples, FL

I have never ben one to tinker with pick-ups and I've usually been more than satisfied with whatever was in the guitar I sat down with. If it 'spoke' to me that was enough. To this day, I don't know what the pick-ups on my LeGrande are wound to - I just know I like 'em.

Having said that, the only Emmons I've played that I didn't like had those 108Ns in it.

???
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Roger Rettig: Emmons D10, B-bender Teles and Martins - and, at last, a Gibson Super 400!
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scott murray · From: Asheville, NC

I've played a Williams or two and I'm always impressed but I can also say that my Legrande is the finest steel I've ever owned/played.
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David Dorwart · From: Orlando, Florida, USA

Iâ€™ve heard that an all pull guitar is less finicky and easier to pedal that a push pull. Not sure if thatâ€™s true since Iâ€™ve never played a push pull but if it is, unless you can tinker, the Williams might be a better choice. You probably will be happy with the tone of both guitars so ultimately it may come down to whichever plays more to your liking. That and the fact that Williams is still in business and going strong

Ron Hogan · From: Nashville, TN, usa

https://youtu.be/coPnXskWLKM

Ron Hogan · From: Nashville, TN, usa

https://youtu.be/gAi4FnkEjRY

Jon Light · From: Saugerties, NY

James Collett · From: San Dimas, CA

I've never played a Williams, but it's my understanding that Greg Leisz's two main steels are a P/P Emmons and a Williams, and I can't tell which one he's playing just by listening to a record.
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James Collett

b0b · From: Cloverdale, CA, USA

Ergonomics is sometimes an issue. The Emmons is considerably larger, which is a problem for small people like me (I'm 5'7"). Also, the Emmons probably weighs about 50% more in its case.
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