Tuning problems w/ Jackson Maverick HD

Ron Hall · From: Montpelier, VA

I just changed strings on my Maverick HD for the first time (bought new in May of this year) and cannot for the life of me get the 4th string lower (E>Eb, LR lever) in tune. It's way sharp. The 8th string is a little better but still can't get it perfect. No matter how much I turn the wrench, nothing seems to happen. On the other hand, these tuners also control the raises for these strings (E>F, LR lever) and that seems to work ok. I realize I'm still pretty new to this, but why would the same tuners control both the lowers and the raises? I'm at a loss as to how to remedy this. Suggestions?

Dana Blodgett · From: California, USA

https://youtu.be/-aQf_agIme0

This might helpâ€¦
At the end plate there are raises and lowersâ€¦to my under standing the fine tuners for lowers are actually appear to be above the â€œraisesâ€ ,there are four lowersâ€¦
String 2&9 and 4&8 lowers, the rest are raises..
Good luck
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From Los Osos,Ca.
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Don Sulesky · From: Citrus County, FL, Orig. from MA & NH

This is the not same on the Maverick HD.
From what I see it looks like a push pull setup as there is only the one pad, no split for raise and lower. I tried for over an hour on Ron's Maverick HD. Starting from the original setup to several compensations and the closest I was able to come on the 4th string was the E was sharp or flat. The 8th string seemed to be close, but not perfect.
I didn't have a manual to go buy, so a lot was trial and error... I've worked and repaired the original Mavericks up to my present day steels over the last 40+ years and never came across the setup like what's on Ron's Maverick.

I just watched the Video...The model shown is not anything like Ron's changer.. again there is no separate tuning for the lowered strings
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Don Sulesky · From: Citrus County, FL, Orig. from MA & NH

This is the not same on the Maverick HD.
From what I see it looks like a push pull setup as there is only the one pad, no split for raise and lower. I tried for over an hour on Ron's Maverick HD. Starting from the original setup to several compensations and the closest I was able to come on the 4th string was the E was sharp or flat. The 8th string seemed to be close, but not perfect.
I didn't have a manual to go buy, so a lot was trial and error... I've worked and repaired the original Mavericks up to my present day steels over the last 40+ years and never came across the setup like what's on Ron's Maverick.
I just watched the video and the Maverick HD shown is not the same as Ron's... the changer is totally different and has the separate adjustment for lowering the strings.
_________________
Private one on one lessons available
Member: FSGC, PSGA, TSGA
Co-founder: Florida Steel Guitar Club

"Steel guitar is like playing chess in the dark with three players". Jeff Newman quote from 1997 seminar

John Larson · From: Pennsyltucky, USA

Your changer looks like this right?
Did you keep the string the same guage that is in the Maverick HD tuning chart? Are you tuning the raise before the lower? Is the C pedal raise over tightened if it is there wont be enough release left in the mechanism for the release part of the pull/release on that string.
Circled is the stop for the lower.

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Rejoice in the Lord, O ye righteous; praise is meet for the upright. Give praise to the Lord with the harp, chant unto Him with the ten-stringed psaltery. Sing unto Him a new song, chant well unto Him with jubilation. For the word of the Lord is true, and all His works are in faithfulness. The Lord loveth mercy and judgement; the earth is full of the mercy of the Lord.
- Psalm 33:1-5

Ron Hall · From: Montpelier, VA

John,

Here's mine:

I have no idea which strings came on it originally. I put D'Addario XL 12/38's. Don convinced me to use a .011 3rd string instead of the .012 which came with the D'Addario set. Since I bought the Maverick from Jackson, I'm assuming it came with their strings? If so, I see that they use a .014 4th whereas the D'Addario is .015. The 8th is the same gauge. Would that extra 1/1000" on the 4th make that much difference so that it renders the lower un-tunable?

I don't think the C pedal raise is over-tightened? That seems to work fine as do all the others. Again, I'm still fairly new to PSG and know very little about the mechanics of this thing. Perhaps Don can comment on this?

Again, why would they put raises and lowers on the same tuners? Doesn't seem to make sense to me. But what do I know?

Ron Hall · From: Montpelier, VA

Dana, John:

Having watched the video and seen your photo (John), it looks like that is an older model. They must have changed it for 2021? Notice that the window is different. As a matter of fact, the steel arrived with no manual or instructions, and the tuning info on their website was for the older Maverick so naturally I was confused since it didn't match what I had. I then contacted them and they told me that yes, that was for the previous model(s) and that the upper window was set and I was to only use the lower window to tune the pedals and levers. The tuning wrench they included with mine only has the female end.

Also, the bridge on mine looks different in how the strings are captured. The ball ends on mine are hidden from view, whereas the ones in the video wrap around.

Don Sulesky · From: Citrus County, FL, Orig. from MA & NH

Ron is correct... With the wrench and tools we had you could not tune anything but the nylon hex nuts.
_________________
Private one on one lessons available
Member: FSGC, PSGA, TSGA
Co-founder: Florida Steel Guitar Club

"Steel guitar is like playing chess in the dark with three players". Jeff Newman quote from 1997 seminar

John Larson · From: Pennsyltucky, USA

Are the lower stops the nylon hex adjusts on the top?
Are the fingers resting flush? They should be flush or close to flush.

_________________
Rejoice in the Lord, O ye righteous; praise is meet for the upright. Give praise to the Lord with the harp, chant unto Him with the ten-stringed psaltery. Sing unto Him a new song, chant well unto Him with jubilation. For the word of the Lord is true, and all His works are in faithfulness. The Lord loveth mercy and judgement; the earth is full of the mercy of the Lord.
- Psalm 33:1-5

John Palumbo · From: Lansdale, PA.

Take a peek at this it may be of some help to you:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E9433N6X5aQ

K Maul · From: Hadley, NY/Hobe Sound, FL

Perplexing that Jackson doesnâ€™t include some instructions on tuning. For someone just starting out that can be pretty confusing. Iâ€™d call again and have them walk you through it all.
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Damir Besic · From: Nashville,TN.

owning a several Jackson guitars in the past , one thing consistent is , that there is nothing consistent about them , every Jackson guitar I owned seemed to had different changer or mechanism, great guitars tho
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Joe Shelby · From: Walnut Creek, California, USA

I would be interested if and how you resolve this tuning issue. I ordered a Jackson HD Maverick last week
and wonder how the lowers are tuned.

Thank you.

Ron Hall · From: Montpelier, VA

Here's mine:

Greg Forsyth · From: Colorado, USA

Ron,
When you restrung the Jackson did you make sure the ball ends of the strings are securely in the right position?
On my Jackson the ball end fits into a slotted piece and is hard to see if the ball is located correctly. I changed the 3rd string and it took me a several times before I got the ball end seated correctly.

Ron Hall · From: Montpelier, VA

Greg,

As far as I can tell they were seated correctly.

James Collett · From: San Dimas, CA

Sounds like it may actually be over-tuned. Pull release guitars need much more slack in the pull rods than do all-pull guitars. If either of the raise rods on the 4th string doesn't have enough slack, the changer finger will bottom out on that and never reach the stop. You should be able to tell by whether any of the raise rods go taught under the guitar when you engage the lower. Given that the problem is on both the 4th and 8th strings, I'd look at the E-F raise knee lever first.

If I'm right, then you may need to adjust the travel on whichever raise is causing the problem by moving to a different hole in the bell crank or backing off the stop screw (personally, I'd back off the screw before I change the leverage point to see if it solves the problem). That will create more slack in the raise rods, and give the lower room to bottom out on the screw stop and not the other rod.

If that's not it, then you'll need to play with the travel ratio between raise and lower by tightening the metal nut on the 4th and 8th string at the changer to give more travel to the lower. Since you're adjusting the "neutral" position of the string, you'll have to retune the open note and all pulls on that string every time you make an adjustment. I would make sure the lower stop (top screw with the guitar upright) is backed off pretty far, adjust the metal nut until you overshoot the pitch of the lower (i.e. flat of the intended change, and then tune with the lower stop screw.

Because it's a literal balancing act, pull-release guitars can be frustrating to set up and troubleshoot, especially when dealing with changes that would otherwise be pretty minor, like string gauge/brand. Once they're set up and really dialed in, though, they're usually pretty solid and can be made to play with pretty smooth action.
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James Collett · From: San Dimas, CA

Looking again at the pictures it looks like the metal nuts may have been backed off and are no longer set right, so there isn't enough travel left for the lower to happen fully. It's rare to have the changer fingers line up nicely like that on a pull-release. Notice how the 2nd string changer finger is out of line? That gives the finger room to lower. I would expect the fingers for strings 4 and 8 to look somewhat like that as well.
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James Collett

Ian Worley · From: Sacramento, CA

I believe on this guitar the fingers are meant to line up as in John's pic. I spoke with Harry about this in Dallas a couple of years ago, it's not absolutely necessary to function properly, but it's something he was very adamant about. The rods with nylock nuts hold the strings that lower in the neutral "open" position, they're not meant to be adjusted; the raises are tuned with the nylon nuts. The fingers do not contact the body on a like a traditional pull-release setup. The lowers are tuned with the screw stops in the tailpiece. If the lowering finger does not travel far enough to hit the tuning screw stop when you engage the lever, you either need more travel in the knee lever, or more slack in the raise rod, or both.

Insufficient slack in the raise pull is the most common issue with string 4 on pull-release guitars. For slack, it's most helpful to think of it in terms of the overall range of motion required for the changer finger to move from the lowest to the highest note on a given string (D# to F# on string 4). The raise rod nylon nut must be slacked off enough to allow the finger to move all the way to the lowest note (D#).
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Andy Vance · From: Graham, Washington, USA

If all of this started simply by changing strings and the tuning was working correctly prior to changing strings, I would assume the changing of strings has something to do with the issue...

Have you by chance tried re-changing the strings with the appropriate gauges recommended by Jackson?

I would find it odd that fingers, stop screws, raise rod slack, etc, would be impacted by the changing of strings.

Anyway, just a thought.

Marc Jenkins · From: Victoria, British Columbia, Canada

Have you considered calling Jackson guitars? They will probably have more answers and less guesses!

Ron Hall · From: Montpelier, VA

I sent an email to Jackson over the weekend but haven't heard back from them yet. I'll call them tomorrow.

I appreciate all the suggestions. Unfortunately, much of this is over my head at this point.

Andy Vance · From: Graham, Washington, USA

Ron,
I have had good luck in working with Jackson in the past on an issue I had with my guitar. Very nice folks and very helpful.

Ian Worley · From: Sacramento, CA

Ron, the slightly heavier string gauge is definitely enough to cause this sort of issue, you could just buy another .014 and that may solve your current issue, but it's highly likely this won't be the last time it comes up. Once you understand how the mechanism works it will be an easy adjustment for you the next time it comes up. Folks seem to have a tendency to look at pull-release mechanisms as being exotic and complicated and don't bother trying to understand how they work. They are actually very simple in their function, I'm not guessing here.

Do this: Back the two nylon nuts on string 4 way off, such that they have no effect on the movement of that finger (but not the Nylock nut on top, it should not be adjusted). Tune the open E note. Engage the knee lever to lower the Es, tune the D# with the allen screw on that string. With that knee lever still engaged, tighten the bottom nylon nut until it just contacts the finger in the lowered position, then back it off a quarter turn. This establishes the minimum amount of slack you will need for the lower to function. If the raise rod nylon is tightened any farther than this it will no longer allow the finger to "release" fully against the stop screw when the lower is engaged. Now, engage the lever that raises the Es, it should be sharp of F. If so, back off the nylon nut to tune the F note. If the F is still flat, you'll need to adjust the lever stop to increase the travel, or range of motion for that lever.

Repeat this process with the upper nylon nut and the C pedal. The C pedal is the more likely culprit because of the longer pull. If you do have to increase travel to allow enough slack for the heavier string you may need to adjust pedal height a little too once you have the tuning sorted, that is usually fairly straightforward. After adjusting the lever or pedal stops/travel and depending on which end of the pedal/lever's travel they affect, you may have to go back to step one to make sure there is still sufficient slack to allow the full lower, if not just repeat. This should take all of 2-3 minutes. Best of luck.
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All lies and jest, still a man hears what he wants to hear and disregards the rest - Paul Simon

Donny Hinson · From: Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.

And now, you know...why so many of us simply prefer an all-pull guitar. Mr. Green

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