I want to build a Steel amp!

Patrick Fleming · From: South Dakota, USA

I am so incredibly inspired by the posts about the P2P Bad-Dawg and the Marsh Mello-Verb that I have decided to build a steel amp. So what to build? I currently hall around a Twin Reverb so I am thinking something a bit lighter in the 22 to 50 watt range. Any suggestions on what makes a good starting platform for a Steel amp? I have tons of more specific questions but lets starts there. Thanks

Patrick

Liam Sullins · From: Brookville, Ohio

I started building amps last year in March and all I did was watch Uncle Doug, D-Lab, and Mike Scaggs videos and I learned how to safely work on them. I take a diagram for let's say a Twin and I go from there, price out all the parts and build it. But a Mojotone kit for a complete beginner could be better for you.
_________________
'66 Sho~Bud Fingertip, Sho~Bud amps, Fenders, old cars and Tinkerin with steels!

Bill A. Moore · From: Silver City, New Mexico, USA

I've built a few, my first was a Twin clone, then a Deluxe Reverb. We still get together and jam once in a while, but I don't need a Twin to play in a living room.
A while back I found a 50's style chassis on the 'bay that I plan on building as a single channel AB763 with reverb only. At 18" wide inside, there's room for a K130, but more portable than my others.

Benjamin Davidson · Posted 27 Oct 2021 8:12 am

Things to consider:

What is your experience with electronics, and high electrical voltages?

Have you done wiring and soldering work yourself before?

What is the limitation of equipment, knowledge, and resources, and can you complete the project you have in mind?

None of that is meant as a discouragement.
My recommendation to start such a project:

I recommend getting a book or two on how tube amps work, how they are voiced, and how to safely work on them. Learn the gain stages, reverb circuits, power stages tremolo circuits, all of it. Effects Loops, relays all the details that go into an amplifier. I recommend this even for the fellas building "kit" amplifiers, as the knowledge gained will prevent mistakes, identify issues with schematics or parts delivered, and assist in your troubleshooting should you have an issue with a new amp.

Second, sort out the kind of amplifier you wish to build. To me, my preferences draw me to the mid-60's Fenders. And I really love the sound of a Twin for steel. With the culture of playing out, you don't need that much volume on stage these days. If you follow the schematics for the lower power Fenders, you find they are voiced to break up earlier. So, you have decisions to make regarding the circuits and if you are going to build it eye-let board, or turrets. A bunch of other decisions you have to make, unless you say "building kit X from dealer Y"

Then there is the sourcing of your components, and the method of your build which is a whole other discussion. Safe first power up is another great thing to be thinking about. Eventually, you'll play music - but there is a lot to get through to get there.

The YouTube channels mentioned are great resources, as is www.robrobinette.com.
_________________
Justice Pro-Lite (9p9k) 10 String D13th Universal Tuning

Patrick Fleming · From: South Dakota, USA

I have read a couple books on building amps and I have built a few amps in the past a 5e3 from a kit for a friend and a princeton reverb for me, but I did not do any of the design, just mild tweeks to tremolo or tone stack. I have read that part of what make a twin so great as a steel amp is the solid state rectifier. Deluxe and Super reverb (more inline with the wattage I was looking for) have tube rectifiers. My princeton sounds great for steel but only at quite low volume. I really like the idea of a single channel three knob reverb or something like the marsh Clifton which is the deluxe reverb with one channel specifically dialed in for steal. Which I assume means headroom. I am hoping to build something that is very steel specific and am just starting the research phase. I am not opposed to getting a kit but I like building as much of it as I can. If Mike Marsh Offered the Mello-Verb (or JR) as a kit I would guess that would be much better than anything I could come up with...

Bill A. Moore · From: Silver City, New Mexico, USA

Patrick, here is what I'm planning,
https://robrobinette.com/RR763_BLACKVIBE.htm#AB763_Single_Channel_With_Reverb_But_Tremolo_Deleted
As for the rectifier, you can delete the tube, and go SS. (I always add a couple of backup diodes on my tube rectifiers anyway!)

Lary Marshall · From: Green Oak Township, Michigan, USA

Here's what I think are a good set of books on Tube amps. I've read the first 4 and there's a 5th that I haven't sprung for yet as they're a bit pricey at $100 for each volume. But they're chocked full of information.

_________________
MSA Legend XL U12, Collings SoCo, PRS Custom 24, Taylor 810, p2p Bad-Dawg, Victoria Silver Sonic

Don Downes · From: New Hampshire, USA

I must agree with Mr. Davidson. Before I retired, I spent 30 years in electronic engineering. One (of many) lessons I learned is transistors blow themselves up, tubes blow YOU up. If your comfortable working with a 6L6 pentode with a 450-500V plate voltage, I wish you success. If not, then I would put wheels on that Twin. Tubes will hurt you in the worst way possible. And at $115 a pop (unless you want to pay double for a matched pair) it ain't worth it.

I'm certainly not questioning your skills. Not at all. As Mr. Benjamin pointed out, safety is the number one consideration with such a project.
_________________
"The secret to a long life is to keep breathing."

Don Downes · From: New Hampshire, USA

_________________
"The secret to a long life is to keep breathing."

Patrick Fleming · From: South Dakota, USA

I totally agree that safety is a a major concern, one I take seriously. If it did not make me a bit nervous then I probably shouldn't be doing it. To be totally honest I am one of those guys who actually keeps one hand in his pocket while checking voltage levels, and I discharge all the caps twice before putting my fingers in there. I rather like being alive! There is something special about playing something you made, so I will be overly cautious and careful, double and triple check everything and hopefully build an amp that has reverb that sounds like angels and head room out the wazoo!!!

I may have to look for those books Larry, I am trying to learn all I can while doing this.

Bill, The black Vibe with reverb looks promising... I will have to do a close comparison to the Super Reverb and VibroVerb etc... I have spent hours on the Robinette site and had not come across that.

Thank you.

Mike Auman · From: North Texas, USA

+1 to Lary Marshall's book recommendation. Kevin O'Connor's Ultimate Tone series is great and contains many different ideas and designs, from the very basics to quite advanced. https://londonpower.com
_________________
Long-time guitar player, now wrestling with lap steel.

Don Downes · From: New Hampshire, USA

I'm glad you didn't take offense to my comment and took it in the spirit it was meant. Your comment on using equipment you built is very true. I've built a few preamps in my time, and it is very rewarding. Thought they were low voltage DC.

Electricity, like the ocean, doesn't always get the respect it deserves. It seems like you have a grat attitude, and I comment you on you build.
_________________
"The secret to a long life is to keep breathing."

J Fletcher · From: London,Ont,Canada

Hi Patrick I have built a dozen or so different tube amps over the last thirty years , the latest being a 10 watt amp , with an 8 inch speaker .
If you are wanting to gig with your homebuild amp , and are used to using a Twin , then I wonder if a 22 watt amp will do the job .
A 50 watt amp with high efficiency speaker might do it .
As for buying and reading a lot of books about tube amp building , don't think that's necessary these days . Everything is on the internet .
Having said that , if I were to recommend a single book it would be one of the RCA Tube Manual reprints .

https://www.tubesandmore.com/products/rca-receiving-tube-manual-rc-30

Don Downes · From: New Hampshire, USA

I remember that book Very Happy

I had the "transistor" version by RCA. Awesome book.
_________________
"The secret to a long life is to keep breathing."

Cappone dAngelo · From: Vancouver, BC, Canada

I've built a few amps and am also considering what to build for use with pedal steel. I currently use a high voltage tube preamp I built, running through an FX processor and rackmount power amp, but I want to do a full amp with spring reverb.

Currently I'm thinking a Super Reverb head might be the way to go. I want enough headroom to use for gigs (PSG or otherwise ...) but also want something I can easily transport. So I'm thinking a bigger blackface in head format - perhaps using one of the mojotone head cabs (Mojotone offers head cabs for the smaller amps too - including Deluxe Reverb - if you're like me and don't make your own cabinets).

Patrick Fleming · From: South Dakota, USA

The way I understand it, is that Leo Himself built the original fender amps from the deigns in the RCA book. I have seen the book but only as show and tell from a chatty amp tech. You might be right about the 22 watt version. I have been looking much more closely at the black Vibe Reverb that Bill mentioned. That in the 50 watt super reverb version (like Cappone suggests) but still single channel and no tremolo. It might even fit in a Princeton reverb size Chassis. I spent a couple hours today comparing schematics of the reverb section of the the Black Vibe reverb and the 6g15 stand alone reverb to see if could add a tone and dwell control where the speed and depth controls would usually be.

Marc Jenkins · From: Victoria, British Columbia, Canada

Adding reverb tone and depth controls is not complicated - in both cases, pots sub in as variable resistors. Do it!

J Fletcher · From: London,Ont,Canada

One of my first amp projects was rebuilding a Princeton Reverb as a 40 watt amp with a 12" speaker . Today I think that was too much stuff crammed into too small a space . A Deluxe Rev chassis would be better .
The RCA tube manuals are great for their explanations of basic amp circuits , voltage amps , power amps and power supplies , as well as tube data for pretty much any tube you will encounter .
Never really saw the connection between the RCA manuals and Fender amps . The amp schematics and designs in the back of the manual look unlike any Fender amp that I know of .
Still , they are a great resource . Today of course all that info is online , but personally I like having the books too . Have fun with your amp building .

Don Downes · From: New Hampshire, USA

I happened upon a trove of tubes this evening. I have a bunch of DYNACO equipment from the 70s. Last year or so, I retubed everything. And I bought the best that I could find.

I have four Mullard MATCHED 12AX7s

I also have Four Mullard MATCHED EL34s (They are currently installed in my Dynaco ST70, but I'm showing the RCA box.) I still have the RCAs

Not sure what else I have in the box-o-tubes. Mostly preamp 12AX7s and EL34s. All are good. The RCAs are from the 70s.

I really came upon this lost treasure box looking for a GZ34 rectifier. Damned if I don't have it. Nonetheless. email me with any interest in the above described valves.
_________________
"The secret to a long life is to keep breathing."

Don Downes · From: New Hampshire, USA

I'm sorry folks. I realize I should not have posted this on this thread. I should have posted it in "For Sale".

So as not to run afoul of Forum rules, I have decided to remove it.

I do apologize.
_________________
"The secret to a long life is to keep breathing."

Foster Haney · From: Ojai, CA

I recently built a Mojotone Princeton clone that has a few modsâ€¦ maybe more than a few.

Custom combo Mather cab to fit the 15â€ Eminence EPSC-15
Larger output transformer
A few â€œcalm down you overdrive modsâ€
Reverb dwell
Mid pot
Tremolo mods - slower deeper
5uf for first tone cap to tighten the bass. (Originally a 25uf)
And maybe a few others that I am missing

This amp is an amazing!! guitar amp, and a good steel amp at bedroom/small stage volumes.
I have recently done some huge restoration on a 79â€™ deluxe reverb. And playing steel through that has lead me to my next journey of building the Blackvibe with Reverb. Hopefully Iâ€™ll start in the beginning of the new year.

After pricing out what it would cost to source my own parts through various sources I find that what Mojo is charging is not ridiculous.
_________________
1975 MSA Classic, AA1164 Princeton clone, Quilter Tone Block 202, Custom Warmoth Jazzmaster, two Kazou Yairi Alvarez Acoustics from the 80's, Acme Low B2 bass cab.

Patrick Fleming · From: South Dakota, USA

Foster, I am in the same boat, since Bill suggested the blackvibe reverb I have been looking I have been looking at it closely and think that is me plan as well. The mojotone kits are resasonable but there are too many differences in what i want t o build and the kits they offer. I have decided to build the black vibe reverb with dwell and tone on the reverb on a 20" bassman chassis with Higher voltage super reverb transformers, and a few other tweeks to increase headroom. I am close to finishing up the Layout with the Hoffmanamps.com software. I would be happy to share it and would welcome any tips or comments before the build starts.

Bill A. Moore · From: Silver City, New Mexico, USA

Patrick, I went as far as having the layout blown up at the copy shop, but haven't traced it out to build a turret board. I would sure be interested in what you come up with!

I thought I had a chassis you might use, but it is almost 24" I was going to build a Vibrolux Reverb a few years ago, but never did. It has three octal and six noval tube holes, but no front or rear openings. (The transformer opening is the smaller Vibrolux size also!)

Bob Sigafoos · From: San Clemente, Calif. , U.S.

My take on amp building: The past 20 years I've built about 15 amps just for kicks. I'm not an electrical genius and view these amps more of a mechanical project. If you are just getting into amp building I'd say by a kit. I've bought kits from Weber, Trinity, R J Guitars. Trinity had "nearly" step by step instructions which are good enough for the first time builder. The others had no plans and just a box of parts.

Once you build an amp or two no plans are needed. A couple of times I sourced my own parts for an amp. When things were all said and done did I save money? A big NO! but it was good experience making a list, comparing prices and dealing with three or more companies. You'll be talking to the transformer guy, chassis-capacitor- resistor guy, Speaker guy and maybe more! With shipping so much these days you'd want to keep the amount of vendors as low as you can get.

As far as a steel amp goes none of my amps have a good steel tone the would be considered great by most steelers except a Blackface Super Reverb head I built. So far i've built a 5E3, Tweed Bandmaster, Tweed Bassman, Priceton Reverb, Trainwreck Liverpool, Supro, Marshal 18 watt and more.

Definately a fun hobby. Wait till you get into hi-fi stuff such as 300B's and 2A3's. Thats another avenue for tube amps. Good luck

Bill A. Moore · From: Silver City, New Mexico, USA

Bob, I'm not sure you save money from a kit or sourcing your own, but you have more control over components. My first build was a Twin, and I planned for it in a head. I bought Weber chassis and face plates. But generally sourced most of what I wanted from CE. I ended up with what I thought I needed, rather that what the kit supplied. My Twin has a Hammond PT, Reverb, and Choke, an OT for a '94 Twin, CTS, Mallory, Sprague, and turret boards which I built. I installed a Marshall impedance switch, and with the '94 OT, I have an XLR line out also. Being my first build, and influenced by opinions on forums, I used CC resistors. After checking several to get the value specified, my next builds use carbon film.

Forum Index > Electronics	Goto page 1, 2 Next	Next oldest topic :: Next newest topic