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Topic: Pickup Pole Piece/String Alignment |
Jon Light
From:
Saugerties, NY
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Posted 24 Oct 2021 8:22 am |
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How forgiving do you consider the alignment? I love the Telonics blade currently in the guitar but I'm wanting to try other things.
Does anyone have a standard-spacing pole piece type pickup such as a BL710/712 or Telonics 84/128 on the narrower string-spaced Williams? Can you get away with this? Do the adjustable poles on the Telonics help compensate for this issue....if it is an issue? In my 12 string, the discrepancy really starts to look extreme as you extend it to the two extra strings (10 does not look as bad).
I'm planning on finding out for myself but I'd be happy to save myself the trouble if someone tells me that they tried and it really doesn't work well. I happen to have both the BL and the Telonics pickups on hand....it's not about ordering them. |
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Doug Earnest
From:
Branson, MO USA
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Posted 24 Oct 2021 9:52 am
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| A very reputable person told me that Bill Lawrence said he would put the pole pieces between the strings but the public would never stand for it. |
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Jon Light
From:
Saugerties, NY
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Posted 24 Oct 2021 10:05 am
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Doug -- Ha!
That falls somewhere between 'awesome information' and an awesome Bill Lawrence story. A long long time ago Bill really really urged me to try something that he thought everyone should do and I tried it and it was the worst thing I ever heard (running a piezo tweeter in parallel with my speaker). He was an endearing guy and his contributions are countless. But I do maintain 'reality checks' on his gospels.
I've received an email that leans me toward the spacing issue being a problem. I simply may have to find out for myself. |
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Michael Brebes
From:
Northridge CA
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Posted 24 Oct 2021 11:50 am
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| Doug Earnest wrote: |
| A very reputable person told me that Bill Lawrence said he would put the pole pieces between the strings but the public would never stand for it. |
The Fender Jazz Bass pickups have the pole pieces on with side of the strings. They work for that bass.
_________________
Michael Brebes
Instrument/amp/ pickup repair
MSA D10 Classic/Rickenbacher B6/
Dickerson MOTS/Dobro D32 Hawaiian/
Goldtone Paul Beard Reso
Mesa Boogie Studio Pre/Hafler 3000
RP1/MPX100 |
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Jon Light
From:
Saugerties, NY
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Posted 24 Oct 2021 12:17 pm
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The problem with my specific scenario (the offset position in the Lawrence discussion and the Jazz Bass is a whole nuther matter, with all the strings seeing the same relationship to the poles) is that you cannot position it so that you are 'splitting the difference' with equal distribution of the error. Some will be dead on, some will be close. Some will be pretty far off. I am imagining that you want all the strings to have the same relationship with the poles.
But, then, I'm asking 'is this so?' Because maybe this relationship is not as critical as I'm imagining. ??
A BL712. The Telonics has adjustable poles. Useful in this scenario or irrelevant?
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Noah Miller
From:
Rocky Hill, CT
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Posted 24 Oct 2021 12:36 pm
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How important it is varies quite a lot from one pickup design to another. Generally, I've found that string/pole alignment matters a lot more when the magnets themselves are closer to the strings. If the magnets are underneath with screw poles (like a P90 or Gibson-style humbucker), the string balance tends to be a lot more forgiveable than something like your standard Fender pickups.
Of course, having a long rail magnet, even inside the coil, is a big help. Having a hot pickup can help even things out through compressed dynamics, too. |
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David Ball
From:
North Carolina High Country
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Posted 24 Oct 2021 3:50 pm
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| Michael Brebes wrote: |
| Doug Earnest wrote: |
| A very reputable person told me that Bill Lawrence said he would put the pole pieces between the strings but the public would never stand for it. |
The Fender Jazz Bass pickups have the pole pieces on with side of the strings. They work for that bass. |
I read somewhere that Leo did that on the Jazz Bass to keep from it from having so much punch that it blew out speakers. Don't know if that's true or not, but it makes a good story.
Like Noah said, I've seen some guitars where the pole alignment seemed to make a big difference, and others where it made no difference at all. Maybe he's onto something with the magnet to strings business.
Dave |
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Jon Light
From:
Saugerties, NY
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Posted 24 Oct 2021 4:08 pm
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| I hate pickup changing and I was hoping for a definitive answer here that might cause me to avoid doing it (while knowing that such a thing was unlikely). I suspect that it will be a problem but I really am curious and I would love for it to work. So it would seem that the only way to find out is to find out. I may not get to it for a few days but I'll report back if (when?) I go ahead and install the Telonics w/ adjustable pole pieces. |
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Nick Fryer
From:
Ohio, USA
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Posted 24 Oct 2021 5:10 pm
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My gut feeling is that in this situation your strings will be really unbalanced. The trebles look good but then they progressively are off as you move down and I think you will really hear that. In some cases it doesn’t matter and like some pointed out the Jbass is designed offset with a pair of magnets. Part of the reason for this is that the string moves back and forth and the magnets will pickup that back and forth movement. I’ve seen some Emmons pickups with extra poles on the high string and low
String side to pickup the back and forth movement of the string. You should try it and it’s possible that there’s enough magnet in there that the strings will be fine, but again my gut is that it won’t be balanced. Keep me posted on what you discover.
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www.fryerguitarpickups.com |
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Bob Hoffnar
From:
Austin, Tx
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Posted 25 Oct 2021 5:07 am
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I did quite a bit of research on this issue when I was making pickups with adjustable pole pieces. I found that pole pieces pick up signal in a non directional way so that unless there was no pole pieces under the string or less than half at the edge of the pickup there was no need for the pole pieces to line up perfectly. The pole pieces create a general field. It is not a significant issue.
That Blii Lawrence pickup will work fine. Any volume discrepancies between strings will be about string gauge , technique or your steel and not about pole piece placement.
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Bob |
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Bob Hoffnar
From:
Austin, Tx
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Posted 25 Oct 2021 5:17 am
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In other words the BL pickup should be even across the strings. If you prefer it to be uneven to suit discrepancies go with adjustable pole pieces.
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Bob |
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Jon Light
From:
Saugerties, NY
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Posted 25 Oct 2021 5:46 am
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| Hey Bob. Thank you! That adds fuel to my plan to go ahead and see for myself. Pickups, I've got. Motivation....it's dripping thru the coffee filter. |
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Nick Fryer
From:
Ohio, USA
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Richard Sinkler
From:
aka: Rusty Strings -- Missoula, Montana
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Posted 25 Oct 2021 5:54 am
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I have NEVER had a Bill Lawrence pickups that the pole pieces lined up perfectly with the strings, and I have had several.
2 - 710's on a Super-Pro
2 - 710's on a Sho-Bud Professional
2 - 710's on a Williams
1 - XR16 w/ coil tap switch on Mullen 12 string
2 - 710's, and now an XR16 w/coil tap switch on E9 on my Carter
Never on any of those guitars did they line up, and it was never a problem.
_________________
Carter D10 8p/8k, Dekley S10 3p/4k C6 setup,Regal RD40 Dobro, Recording King Professional Dobro, NV400, NV112,Ibanez Gio guitar, Epiphone SG Special (open D slide guitar) . Playing for 54 years and still counting. |
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Donny Hinson
From:
Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.
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Posted 25 Oct 2021 6:17 am
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Jon, as long as the pickup you pictured is centered under the strings, I personally don't think that the individual polepiece misalignment means diddley damn.
| Jon Light wrote: |
But, then, I'm asking 'is this so?' Because maybe this relationship is not as critical as I'm imagining. ??
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Looking at this photo, I'd say you're correct:
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Jon Light
From:
Saugerties, NY
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Posted 25 Oct 2021 11:13 am
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Um....
Ok -- I forgive myself for all of this because the parallax or whatever optical quirk looks extreme in the photo, above. It is also positioned to put all the "error" on one end.
I did not want to spend the time swapping pickups if the consensus was that there was slim chance of it working.
Here we are now. This is how it actually lines up.
I'm sort of embarrassed but I'll go back to he first sentence and excuse myself again.
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Nick Fryer
From:
Ohio, USA
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Posted 25 Oct 2021 11:16 am
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All good! I learned something from all of this so, thank you!!
How does the pickup sound?
_________________
www.fryerguitarpickups.com |
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Jon Light
From:
Saugerties, NY
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Posted 25 Oct 2021 11:23 am
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| Nick Fryer wrote: |
All good! I learned something from all of this so, thank you!!
How does the pickup sound? |
Not wired yet. And then there's the fine tuning process which will take some time. I'm expecting a long sit-down session with that. There's a lengthy procedural manual for that. |
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Scott Denniston
From:
Hahns Peak, Colorado, USA
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Posted 25 Oct 2021 12:51 pm
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| I recently asked Becky about this when I bought two LXR-16s for my Dekley D-12. The string spacing is a little narrower. She told me (as some of the above posts mention) that it wouldn't make any difference at all if strings went center post or off to one side. I haven't installed those yet because of the major surgery involved with the Dekley. I'll have to schedule that. |
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John De Maille
From:
On a Mountain in Upstate Halcottsville, N.Y.
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Posted 25 Oct 2021 3:19 pm
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Jon, a thought.
As you bring the strings up to tension, you could move them slightly on the radius of the changer to center them more over the pole. Yours really don't look that bad though. However, if it still mentally bothers you, you could slide them over a bit. |
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Jon Light
From:
Saugerties, NY
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Posted 25 Oct 2021 3:32 pm
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There is absolutely zero problem. Even if I were OCD'ing out on this, I couldn't find a problem. As soon as I slid that pickup in I realized that what I was seeing with the pickup unmounted was just a major visual exaggeration of the small amount of discrepancy. And it sounds as I'd expect from the last picture. No issues.
And I am really digging the pickup. The Telonics double blade that I ordered with the Williams could not bring any sparkle to the bottom strings. They were flat and thuddy. A Steeltronics Z pickup made the bottom strings sound better than any steel guitar I have ever owned. But they created too strong an identity to the overall sound and I want this guitar to cover a lot of ground from honky tonk to folk duos.
I've almost got this Telonics 128 dialed in and it sounds pretty wonderful. |
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