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Topic: Does anyone raise middle G# to A#? |
b0b
From:
Cloverdale, CA, USA
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Posted 18 Oct 2021 8:45 am |
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I was working on a song today and found myself in the "A+F" major chord position, wanting to raise the middle G# (string 6) a full step like regular "A" pedal change. Darn! I don't have that! Does anyone?
I was playing strings 6, 8F and 10A - a standard major chord grip. G# to A# would be handy, but I wouldn't even know where to put it. Maybe on the string 2 "D" lever? It would also make a B Maj7 chord with E's lowered. 
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-πππ- (admin) - Robert P. Lee - Recordings - Breathe - D6th - Video |
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Gary Newcomb
From:
AustinTexas, USA
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Posted 18 Oct 2021 11:11 am
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My 4th pedal on my u12 e9/b6 does that and I use it all the time. It took a bit of muscle memory to get my right foot to make the journey accurately but I love the sound of it and havenΓ’β¬β’t noticed too much of a rub with how the change is tuned for my eΓ’β¬β’s lowered B6 stuff.
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Sierra Session U12, Milkman 1/2, Goodrich Omni, Divine Noise Cables, BJS, Solid cosmic gold, baby Γ°ΕΈβΒΆΓ°ΕΈΒΒ» |
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Dave Zirbel
From:
Sebastopol, CA USA
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Posted 18 Oct 2021 11:13 am
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IΓ’β¬β’ve been dreaming of that pull on my Fender for years, it would be used a lot but requires mods to the guitar since I want the half step pull too.
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Dave Zirbel-
Sierra S-10 (Built by Ross Shafer),ZB, Fender 400 guitars, various tube and SS amps |
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Steve Mueller
From:
Cincinnati, Ohio, USA
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Posted 18 Oct 2021 11:26 am
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bOb,
I used to have that change on my Ext E9 pedal 3(I have the typical pedal C 4 and 8 E's to F# on LKR). I used it primarily as you would the C6th pedal 4, for the root chord Maj 7th. Also a 6th tone as you point out for the A + F combo.
I switched it out later on to raise string 5 a half step to C and kept it that way. Three primary uses: 1) minor major 7th as part of 5th string walkdown C#, C, B, A#, 2) nice augmented 5th with Dom 7th, root, 2nd, 3rd, aug 5th voicing, and 3) lovely full 4 note diminished with pedals 2,3 and my RKL(lowers E's to D#).
Placing the G# to A# on the "D" lever may work since it can't be on a floor pedal and used with the A + F. So many good changes to choose from with only 2 legs and 2 knees!
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2016 Williams D12 8 x 8, 2015 Williams D12 8 x 8, 2023 Williams S12 4 x 5, Milkman Amps, 1974 Gibson Byrdland
Last edited by Steve Mueller on 18 Oct 2021 12:00 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Ian Worley
From:
Sacramento, CA
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Posted 18 Oct 2021 11:56 am
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I have that change on my -0- pedal on E9, it's very useful. Way too many uses to list, but off the top:
-combined with the A pedal it gives an F#7 (II7)
-combined with a lever that raises string 4 to F# it becomes a "reverse Franklin pedal" on strings 10-7-6-5-4, the Franklin changes occurs when you release 0 and A pedals, but they can be manipulated independently. This is very useful
-combined with A+F as you mentioned gives that nice motion raising the 5th tone to the 6th for an A#m or C#6, same as squeezing the A pedal in open position (it does work like a charm w/ A+F when located in the -0- position)
-with Es lowered it's the same change as P7 on C6 - an F#6/Bmaj9/D#m7 etc, but as above those notes can be toggled independently so there are other possibilties beyond what a P7 can do
-with Es lowered and using string 7 as root (F#6), the -0- pedal functions the same as the A pedal in normal E9 pedal down position, it toggles between the 9th and 3rd for the classic "corn squeeze" three frets above the typical A+B
And on and on, lots of other possibilities. Don't leave home without it.
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All lies and jest, still a man hears what he wants to hear and disregards the rest - Paul Simon
Last edited by Ian Worley on 18 Oct 2021 11:56 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Steve Leal
From:
Orange CA, USA
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Posted 18 Oct 2021 11:56 am
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| Hi Bob. I love having this change on my zero pedal by itself. Works great in A/F position, in Es lowered position, and in two frets down from open position! |
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Dan Beller-McKenna
From:
Durham, New Hampshire, USA
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Posted 18 Oct 2021 2:00 pm
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| Same as Ian. |
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K Maul
From:
Hadley, NY/Hobe Sound, FL
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Posted 18 Oct 2021 3:06 pm
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I have it as my fourth pedal on my EXCEL S-11, which also raises the B-C#. On my 12 string I have it on 0 pedal that just raises that string alone and I use it in conjunction with the A pedal.
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KEVIN MAUL: Airline, Beard, Clinesmith, Donner, Evans, Excel, Fender, Fluger, GFI, Gibson, Hilton, Ibanez, Justice, K+K, Live Strings, MOYO, National, Oahu, Peterson, Quilter, Rickenbacher, Sho~Bud, Supro, TC, Ultimate, VHT, Williams, X-otic, Yamaha, ZKing. |
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Bengt Erlandsen
From:
Brekstad, NORWAY
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Posted 18 Oct 2021 11:17 pm
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On my S12extE9 7+7, I have 11 and 6 G#-A# at P1
I also have 6&5 G#-A# and B-C# on P6
(P5 lower 12 to E-C# and 7 F#-F)
Pedals on my S12 = P1 A B C P5 P6 P7
Wouldnt it be nice with a custom outer left heel pedal that could be accessed from both the A+F or A+B by a slight lift/shift of the left heel to accesss a very low pedal with short movement that do G# to A#.
Even a custom right hand lever of some sorts with the G#-A# would be nice.
Maybe G#-A# could work on the LKV. Any out there with have two LKV on their guitar? A left and right vertical on the left knee that can be played separately or together?
B.Erlandsen
Zumsteel S12extE9 7+7 |
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Marc Jenkins
From:
Victoria, British Columbia, Canada
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Posted 18 Oct 2021 11:20 pm
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| Anyone successfully using this change with a wound 6th? |
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K Maul
From:
Hadley, NY/Hobe Sound, FL
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Posted 19 Oct 2021 4:48 am
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I have a wound 6th string on my EXCEL. I also lower 6 G#~F#. It is an awesome machine.
_________________
KEVIN MAUL: Airline, Beard, Clinesmith, Donner, Evans, Excel, Fender, Fluger, GFI, Gibson, Hilton, Ibanez, Justice, K+K, Live Strings, MOYO, National, Oahu, Peterson, Quilter, Rickenbacher, Sho~Bud, Supro, TC, Ultimate, VHT, Williams, X-otic, Yamaha, ZKing. |
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Andrew Frost
From:
Toronto, Ontario
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Posted 19 Oct 2021 7:37 am
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| For a while I had a C pedal pulling 5 & 6 a whole tone instead of the usual 4 & 5. Wound 6th. Its a great change, w/ or w/out Es lowered. Changes the harmonic vocabulary significantly in my opinion. |
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J D Sauser
From:
Wellington, Florida
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Posted 19 Oct 2021 7:59 am
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| Marc Jenkins wrote: |
| Anyone successfully using this change with a wound 6th? |
Yes, wound o.o22W, even nickel (which has yet a longer throw than plain) on my Universal ("7"-pedal) and now on my C6th tuned A going to B ("7"-pedal).
RAISING is usually not such an issues with most changers... it's lowering it, because the scissor mechanism on an all pull may not that that travel space available and it may over stretch the return spring.
... J-D.
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__________________________________________________________
Was it JFK who said: Ask Not What TAB Can Do For You - Rather Ask Yourself "What Would B.B. King Do?"
A Little Mental Health Warning:
Tablature KILLS SKILLS.
The uses of Tablature is addictive and has been linked to reduced musical fertility.
Those who produce Tablature did never use it.
I say it humorously, but I mean it. |
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Jerry Overstreet
From:
Louisville Ky
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Posted 19 Oct 2021 8:14 am
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Yes, it's a very usable change as I recall. I had it on a wrist lever so's I could use it at any time in any mode on my Sierra 14U.
Quite honestly, I have forgotten exactly how I used it, but I recall it was very handy.
The older Sierras have the open rear apron which made it easy to install the wrist lever. Obviously, the Ross Sierra is not built that way. I really don't have a suggestion as where to locate it on your guit.
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Dean Parks
From:
Sherman Oaks, California, USA
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Posted 19 Oct 2021 8:40 am
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Yes, I have it on a Zero pedal. I call it the EB pedal (Earnest Bovine, he has it). So with the adjacent A pedal you can do that C6 stuff because you have 2 strings (a Min 3rd interval) raising a whole step together.
Tuning-wise tho, the way I tune, if it is tuned to be beatless with lowered E's (a great minor 2nd/minor 3rd rub), it won't be pretty using it as a major 3rd to an F# root, so you have to choose. |
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b0b
From:
Cloverdale, CA, USA
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Posted 19 Oct 2021 11:03 am
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| Dean Parks wrote: |
Yes, I have it on a Zero pedal. I call it the EB pedal (Earnest Bovine, he has it)...
Tuning-wise tho, the way I tune, if it is tuned to be beatless with lowered E's (a great minor 2nd/minor 3rd rub), it won't be pretty using it as a major 3rd to an F# root, so you have to choose. |
That's a good point. The A# note can't really be in tune with both 8th string knee levers if you try to tune beatless. Bovine tunes meantone which makes it work.
_________________
-πππ- (admin) - Robert P. Lee - Recordings - Breathe - D6th - Video |
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Andrew Frost
From:
Toronto, Ontario
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Posted 19 Oct 2021 12:42 pm
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Interesting. I'd think if the B and F# strings were on the same tuning plane, tuned to B, with a solid 4th/5th relationship, then D# and A# could fit in there nicely as the beatless 3rd and maj7 of that B major paradigm.
But I suppose getting it all to work with the C#s on the A pedal is where it would fall apart, or at least get dicey if you were aiming for a totally pure tuning result... |
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Roger Rettig
From:
Naples, FL
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Posted 19 Oct 2021 1:06 pm
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b0b:
I have a fairly standard D-10 guitar but I love that 'pull'!
I have it on my LKV.
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Roger Rettig: Emmons D10, B-bender Teles and Martins - and, at last, a Gibson Super 400!
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Sam Conomo
From:
Queensland, Australia
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Posted 19 Oct 2021 10:21 pm G#-a#
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I love that change,
I raise my 5th string
As well, but is more
Versatile if you
Could just raise 6.
It just functions like
The C6th ped 7....
There are a few
Compensations you can
Make to make it function
Fully with all E9th knee levers..
Sam. |
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b0b
From:
Cloverdale, CA, USA
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Posted 20 Oct 2021 12:42 am
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In meantone temperament, the intervals for the relative minor chord (1st inversion) are the same for both knee lever positions.
| Tab: |
string E lowered "A+F" plus G# raised
5 B +2 C# -2
6 G# -4 A# -8
7
8 D# -6 E# -10
9
10 B +2 C# -2
chord: G#m A#m |
The bar position is a bit higher for "A+F" position playing. The 7th string F# is tuned to zero, by the way.
_________________
-πππ- (admin) - Robert P. Lee - Recordings - Breathe - D6th - Video |
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b0b
From:
Cloverdale, CA, USA
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Posted 20 Oct 2021 8:48 am
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The major chord intervals in meantone are also the same for both knee lever positions, but they use different strings for the 3rd of the chord.
| Tab: |
string E lowered "A+F" position
5 B +2 C# -2
6 G# -4
7 F# 0
8 D# -6 E# -10
9
10 B +2 C# -2
chord: B major C# major |
_________________
-πππ- (admin) - Robert P. Lee - Recordings - Breathe - D6th - Video |
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Bas Kapitein
From:
Holland
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Posted 27 Oct 2021 5:59 am
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| The previous owner of my Sierra Crown was Cowboy Eddie Long. It came with a 0-pedal that only raised the G# to A#. Eddie called it the key to his sound. He did use compensaters. |
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Bas Kapitein
From:
Holland
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Mike Preuss
From:
Mount Vernon, Washington, USA
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Posted 25 Oct 2024 4:08 pm Middle G# to A#
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I just replaced my zero pedal with this change. Before it was lowering both G#s to G and that never clicked. The string 6 G# to A# is really fun and makes more musical sense to me.
On my search for a 5 pedal E9 I now have this on my zero, standard Emmons ABC, and to the right of C a pedal that lowers string 10 to A, raises 7 and 6 to G and A.
It's feeling and sounding great. |
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Ian Rae
From:
Redditch, England
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Posted 26 Oct 2024 12:46 am
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I have my E raises and lowers on opposite knees, so to get that change I move up a fret, release A and F, and lower the E string instead, which of course is a common minor chord now functioning as a sixth.
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Make sleeping dogs tell the truth!
Homebuilt keyless U12 7x5, Excel keyless U12 8x8, Williams keyless U12 7x8, Telonics rack and 15" cabs |
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