B & G# on string 9/10.. E9/B6?

Andrew Frost · From: Toronto, Ontario

After about 10 years of playing pretty standard E9, I've committed to this quasi-universal approach and been using it for about 6 months.
I really dig it. I use a 10 string Emmons type set up, more or less, but no D string. String 9 goes up to D on RKL as follows:

1 F#
2 D#
3 G#
4 E
5 B
6 G#
7 F#
8 E
9 B +++ (D)
10 G#

The B pedal raises all G#s up a half tone.

There is nothing new or revolutionary about this set up - Its basically the E9 universal approach, but on 10 strings, and works well with a simple 3&4 E9 style configuration, though more changes can fit into it easily, because it is basically B6 when Es are lowered...

Its a great, versatile tuning for a single neck guitar, and I'm very comfortable with it.

I know others use this set-up on 10 strings. It comes up a lot, but I feel it needs a proper name. What is it? Its obviously not really a uni set up. And technically it isn't E9 either without the b7(D) in there.

I'd like to hear from others who use this, just for the sake of conversation, but also to hear what you call it! It's an excellent steel tuning. It deserves a dignified name!

Andy

Tom Campbell · From: Houston, Texas, USA

I've done the same thing except I lower the 8 (E) string to a D.
I'm use to this setup as I was a 12 string Universal player before switching to a 10 string.

It's still an E9/B6.

Ian Rae · From: Redditch, England

My grandson has the same setup so that when he comes to visit he can play my 12-string uni without getting confused.

Apart from that, the 8-9-10 triad is really powerful.

And I don't know what to call it either!
_________________
Make sleeping dogs tell the truth!
Homebuilt keyless U12 7x5, Excel keyless U12 8x8, Williams keyless U12 7x8, Telonics rack and 15" cabs

Henry Brooks · From: Los Gatos, California, USA

I've wanted to have that change also but couldn't get the guitar, MCI, to lower the D to a C. It tunes down below C# but not to C, 0.034W gauge string. Sorry,I misread your post I thought you were trying add C6th's pedal 8, A7#9. I was trying to make a G#7#9 by lowering string 9 to C and 10 to G#.
Henry
P.S. I Also raise string 6 to G# to A# on my 1st pedal,zero pedal.

Dave Hopping · From: Aurora, Colorado

I like the idea a whole lot! My main guitar is a Royal Precision U-12, but I also have a very old Mullen single-neck 3X3 that's been asking for that very setup.

Norman Evans · From: Tennessee

I play that setup, except I lower 8 to D. I call it 10 string Extended E9.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8H2jloUZzFk

K Maul · From: Hadley, NY/Hobe Sound, FL

I have had that setup on one of my steels for several years. I usually lower #8 E to D for that C6 type change but also tried raising 9 up to D. On one I had a 4th pedal(or a knee) that lowered 7 F# and 10 G# to E that was handy for rock/blues material and, with the Eb lever in, some jazzy maj7 voicings like C6 F string.
_________________
KEVIN MAUL: Airline, Beard, Clinesmith, Donner, Evans, Excel, Fender, Fluger, Gibson, Hilton, Ibanez, Justice, K+K, Live Strings, MOYO, National, Oahu, Peterson, Quilter, Rickenbacher, Sho~Bud, Supro, TC, Ultimate, VHT, Williams, X-otic, Yamaha, ZKing.

Benjamin Davidson · Posted 30 Sep 2021 5:14 pm **Re: B & G# on string 9/10.. E9/B6?**

Been playing something similar for just shy of 3 years now. 10 String Uni, I still refer to what I have as universal, as I've added the changes. Even what you have there I would call universal, albeit shortened. I doubt every tuning needs a name, and feel it would simply confuse folks to call it something other than its base E9/B6 uni.

I lower both the 8th string to D via pedal 6 lower on vertical knee), and I raise also raise both string 9 to D and string 10 to B on a LKL2 staggered lever.

You gain that extra inversion low, which is a voicing worth experimenting with.
_________________
Justice Pro-Lite (9p9k) 10 String D13th Universal Tuning

Larry Dering · From: Missouri, USA

My current GFI SD10 4X5 is set up like Andrew's. It's still fairly new to me and unlike my other steels. I'm adjusting to it and love the low notes. I considered it a universal 10. Larry Bell I believe had some paper written on this along with a European player.

Dennis Detweiler · From: Solon, Iowa, US

I play U-12, but if I went to 10 strings, I would set it up with the G# on the 10th string. Raise string 9 to D. I would also have 7 floors with the partial universal tuning.
_________________
1976 Birdseye U-12 MSA with Telonics 427 pickup, 1975 Birdseye U-12 MSA with Telonics X-12 pickup, Revelation preamp, Carbon Copy Delay and Hall Of Fame Reverb, Crown XLS 1002, 2- 15" Eminence Wheelhouse speakers, ShoBud Pedal, Effects Pedals. 1949 Epiphone D-8.

Andrew Frost · From: Toronto, Ontario

Interesting to hear about all your approaches here.
The raising string 9 vs dropping 8 is a common point of difference, and I know there are many a thread about this already.

Lowering 8 ( E to D ) really enables a straight up dom9 voicing, more like the F9 inversion commonly used on C6 pedal 6, whereas raising 9 ( B to D ) enables the Dom9 voicing used on standard E9 tuning.

Both approaches yield possibilities and limitations. I suppose having both is ideal.

C6 w/ped6 ( open F9 )

D
F
C
A
G
Eb
C
A
F
C

...same intervals as lowering string 8 on E9/B6 (@1st pos F9):

G
E
A
F
C
A
G
Eb
C
A

Whereas raising string 9 to D, the voicing is more like the standard E9 tuning up a semitone, at 1st pos...

G
E
A
F
C
A
G
F
Eb
A

which is basically E9 from string 9 up....( open )

F#
D#
G#
E
B
G#
F#
E
D
G#

The minutae of the differences is kind of laughable in the big picture, but at the same time, These subtleties become huge factors in one's phrasing and voicing choices.

I don't have the pedal 6 thing on my set up, so the D note comes from string 9.
One thing I like about this way of doing it, is that there's plenty of cool 5-1 chord resolutions that combine the D raise with the A pedal. Things you can't quite do on standard E9, even with 9 lowering to C#.

Another related advantage is having string 9 potentially hitting C/C# by partial levering. This is taking some practice, but the semitone B# ( C ), for example, is pretty cool in that it yields a dom#9 built on G#, all the way up when Es are lowered.
The same chord Henry mentioned in the thread, akin to the Jerry Byrd A7/C6 pedal 8 thing. Or Purple Haze, I suppose. Laughing

The partial levering is taking practice but its coming along.

Dennis Detweiler · From: Solon, Iowa, US

Andrew has it summed up perfectly. The tuning also expands creativity.
The G# on the bottom also plays some nice low end harmony in chord and bar movement that can't be created on the standard 10 tuning. I lower two G#'s (6 and 10) to F# with a knee lever to allow for flowing movement of harmony. Fits very well with religious songs. Similar to left hand on a piano.
_________________
1976 Birdseye U-12 MSA with Telonics 427 pickup, 1975 Birdseye U-12 MSA with Telonics X-12 pickup, Revelation preamp, Carbon Copy Delay and Hall Of Fame Reverb, Crown XLS 1002, 2- 15" Eminence Wheelhouse speakers, ShoBud Pedal, Effects Pedals. 1949 Epiphone D-8.

John Sluszny · From: Brussels, Belgium

I would call your tuning ANDYâ€™S ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‰

Pete Burak · From: Portland, OR USA

I have a 10 string Uni set up like that.
If you want to maximize your B6th side you can change the first 3 strings to 1=D#, 2=G#, 3=F#.
You still have all the E9th stuff, just a slightly different string order.

Larry Allen · From: Kapaa, Kauai,Hawaii

Another approachâ€¦8 E-D#-D (RKL)â€¦9 B-A (A pedal)â€¦10 E-D#-D-C#..LKL 1-7 standard E9.. Very Happy

_________________
Excel steels & Peavey amps,Old Chevys & Motorcycles & Women on the Trashy Side

Steve Leal · From: Orange CA, USA

I just play a 10 string standard E9 tuning. I have the standard lower of string 2 and 9 on one lever on the same knee opposite direction of my E lowers lever. On my E lowers lever, I added an additional lower of 9. I love this change with my setup.

On my opposite knee, I have a lever that raises 1,2, and lowers 7 a half/whole step. While my Es are lowered, iI bring in the 7 lower to get my #2 chord (very C6 sounding). If I lower 7 a whole step with Es lowered, I get a very usable minor 7th chord.

I also have a zero pedal that raises 6 a whole step. Also works very well with the levers mentioned above. Lots of C6 like combo capabilities together, without interfering with standard E9 type playing.

Andrew Frost · From: Toronto, Ontario

Andrew Frost · From: Toronto, Ontario

Michael Johnstone · From: Sylmar,Ca. USA

Andrew - I have that B>D pull on a zero pedal on my 12 string uni, except on the same pedal, I pull the 10th string low G# up to B as well. This restores the tuning to a standard E9. It's also a nice sounding move when they both come up 3 half steps together to form a 7th chord while the stationary low E string is ringing too. I pull all 3 G#s normally with my B pedal, and lower all 3 G#s to G with RKR. Also I lower the G# on my 6th string by itself a whole step to A# with a 2nd inside LKL. Accessing 4 different notes quickly on the 6th string without messing with splits and half-stops really gives you a lot of easily playable internal cadences within a chord.

Paul Redmond · From: Illinois, USA

I got rid of that D string over 20 years ago and have never missed it. I call it a "short Uni". I use the pedals-down A6th side of the tuning to get all my "6th stuff" using the regular, common E9th knee levers.
PRR

Forum Index > Pedal Steel		Next oldest topic :: Next newest topic