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Topic: Removing the Franklin pedal |
Per Berner
From:
Skovde, Sweden
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Posted 13 Sep 2021 6:57 am |
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When I ordered my Zum Hybrid many years ago, I specified the "Franklin pedal" as pedal 0 (to the left of the other three), but I never found a use for it, so I took it off.
Now I'm toying with the idea of using that pedal for lowering the B strings, a change that many have on the LKV.(In my case the LKV is already taken, I use it for E>F# which is a change I have had since my first steel and cannot be without by now. And adding another LKV is not an option, I find that very uncomfortable and more or less unplayable.)
Since I've never tried lowering the B strings, would having that change on pedal 0 be at all useful? Or is there some other changes that would work in that position?
Last edited by Per Berner on 13 Sep 2021 8:04 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Donny Hinson
From:
Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.
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Posted 13 Sep 2021 7:02 am
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| Yes, if you play a Emmons setup. (It works best next to the "A" pedal.) |
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Per Berner
From:
Skovde, Sweden
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Posted 13 Sep 2021 7:06 am
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Well, i play Emmons setup so my pedal 1 is A, 2 is B, 3 is C. There's room for pedal 0 to the left of the A-pedal.
Any examples of well-known licks that use lowering the B-strings? |
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Pat Chong
From:
New Mexico, USA
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Posted 13 Sep 2021 10:00 am
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Hello, Per,
I don't have any "well known licks", but if you have the Franklin pedal next to the A pedal, you can rock on/off one to the other. And, using the A/B pedals as your home pedals, the Franklin pedal down makes the root note, giving you a full 2 octave range on that same fret......Pat
Last edited by Pat Chong on 13 Sep 2021 10:04 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Per Berner
From:
Skovde, Sweden
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Posted 13 Sep 2021 10:03 am
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| Just to clarify: the Franklin pedal is off the table for good, tried it, didn't like it. The question concerns lowering the Bs. |
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Pat Chong
From:
New Mexico, USA
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Posted 13 Sep 2021 10:09 am
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Understood!
Another suggestion, then, would be to do your B to Bb on your vertical, and move your E to F# to the pedal, for faster action. I had the same setup, but needed faster responce to my E to F#, I too, can't be without it......Pat. |
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John McClung
From:
Olympia WA, USA
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Posted 13 Sep 2021 10:47 am
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Pat, I'm with you, that string 4 E>F# change has a lot of great uses, but finding a home for it without wrecking other mainstay changes is tricky.
I currently don't have it on any guitars, but when I did it was on a staggered LKL-Front. Because I lower and raise E's on my right knee, it allows for a great bit of chromaticism using all 3 levers in sequence.
I'd suggest your Franklin on zero pedal, lower B's a half on LKV, and put that E>F# change on the more or less standard RKL, by itself there, or coupled with string 6 G#>F#. Might even work, or at least not conflict with, string 1 and 2 up a whole and half.
More fun with copedents!
_________________
E9 INSTRUCTION
▪️ If you want to have an ongoing discussion, please email me, don't use the Forum messaging which I detest! steelguitarlessons@earthlink.net |
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Per Berner
From:
Skovde, Sweden
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Posted 13 Sep 2021 11:13 am
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The E>F# LKV change is stuck in my muscle memory by now, and there is NO WAY I will ever change that. Kicking my knee up with my foot on the B pedal is much faster than moving my foot to the C pedal.
A possible alternative position for lowering the Bs would be RKR, I guess – I hardly ever feel a need to lower strings 2 and 9, so those changes could be sacrificed. Would that make more musical sense than lowering the Bs on pedal 0? |
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Richard Sinkler
From:
aka: Rusty Strings -- Missoula, Montana
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Posted 13 Sep 2021 11:21 am
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I've never been real keen on the B to Bb change. And other changes were worth more to me to waste a knee lever on it. I am going to put those changes on the pedal next to my A pedal, pedal 4 in my case as I am a Day player. The only thing I like about it is using it alone to get the 2-nine chord similar pedal 5 on C6.
_________________
Carter D10 8p/8k, Dekley S10 3p/4k C6 setup,Regal RD40 Dobro, Recording King Professional Dobro, NV400, NV112,Ibanez Gio guitar, Epiphone SG Special (open D slide guitar) . Playing for 54 years and still counting. |
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Justin Emmert
From:
Greensboro, NC
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Posted 13 Sep 2021 12:24 pm
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Travis Toy uses it a lot in the 0 position, splitting with the A pedal for an easy augmented chord. He covers his use of it well in a lesson on the Travis Toy Tutorials site. I learned his Hwy 40 Blues solo where he uses it in several places, but don’t have the change yet, so I have to half pedal it. Half pedaling is harder to keep in tune than mashing two pedals, IMO.
https://youtu.be/WlXkLaCx0mM |
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Richard Sinkler
From:
aka: Rusty Strings -- Missoula, Montana
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Posted 13 Sep 2021 1:08 pm
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| Justin Emmert wrote: |
Travis Toy uses it a lot in the 0 position, splitting with the A pedal for an easy augmented chord. He covers his use of it well in a lesson on the Travis Toy Tutorials site. I learned his Hwy 40 Blues solo where he uses it in several places, but don’t have the change yet, so I have to half pedal it. Half pedaling is harder to keep in tune than mashing two pedals, IMO.
https://youtu.be/WlXkLaCx0mM |
That's the other reason I am putting it next to the A pedal. Although, I am pretty good at doing a half pedal on slower stuff, mashing the 2 pedals would be better for fast stuff.
_________________
Carter D10 8p/8k, Dekley S10 3p/4k C6 setup,Regal RD40 Dobro, Recording King Professional Dobro, NV400, NV112,Ibanez Gio guitar, Epiphone SG Special (open D slide guitar) . Playing for 54 years and still counting.
Last edited by Richard Sinkler on 17 Nov 2021 7:39 am; edited 1 time in total |
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K Maul
From:
Hadley, NY/Hobe Sound, FL
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Posted 13 Sep 2021 1:43 pm
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Some lower G#s to G or raise the lower G# to Bb on pedal 0.
_________________
KEVIN MAUL: Airline, Beard, Clinesmith, Donner, Evans, Excel, Fender, Fluger, GFI, Gibson, Hilton, Ibanez, Justice, K+K, Live Strings, MOYO, National, Oahu, Peterson, Quilter, Rickenbacher, Sho~Bud, Supro, TC, Ultimate, VHT, Williams, X-otic, Yamaha, ZKing. |
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Dustin Rigsby
From:
Parts Unknown, Ohio
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Posted 21 Sep 2021 7:33 pm
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It should be against the law to play that good 
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D.S. Rigsby |
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Danny Kuykendall
From:
Fullerton, CA, USA
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Posted 21 Sep 2021 11:52 pm
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| I inherited a Rus-ler pedal steel from my father in 1977. He had the flat B change on his RKL<. I didn't know how to use it, but always used it as a 7th going down two frets. Also with A and B pedals depressed it makes a A# minor. I can see here that I can use it in conjunction with the A pedal to make the augmented chord. Or a half A pedal. |
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Gary Peaslee
From:
Hideaway, TX USA
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Posted 22 Sep 2021 9:17 am
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| Do you like Randy Beavers playing style? If so, you could put his change on the 0 pedal - lower 6 and 9 a half step. Randy has this change on a knee lever. However he has said it will also work well on the 0 pedal, since it can be combined with the A pedal. |
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Cappone dAngelo
From:
Vancouver, BC, Canada
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Posted 22 Sep 2021 9:44 am
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| Per Berner wrote: |
| Just to clarify: the Franklin pedal is off the table for good, tried it, didn't like it. The question concerns lowering the Bs. |
Are you specifically asking about lowering the Bs only a half step, or possibly a whole step?
I originally had B->Bb on P0, but I just split my Franklin pedal so P0 now lowers the Bs to As which I have found uses for, but the splits are tuned so that P0 + pedal A raises the Bs a half step - great for augmented chords, as others have mentioned. I still half-pedal for the minor subdominant (4) chord, though, because I can't reach all 3 pedals at once (which, with the split, would give me that same minor chord), so I'm thinking I could use a B-Bb lower on a knee just for that purpose - though I don't have any available now ... |
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Per Berner
From:
Skovde, Sweden
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Posted 22 Sep 2021 10:00 am
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| I'm leaning towards trying the B>Bb change on a knee lever, but I'll try it out on my AVM (which is extremely easy to re-rod) before I dismantle my Zum... |
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Tiny Olson
From:
Mohawk River Valley, Upstate NY
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Posted 22 Sep 2021 12:53 pm
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| I have a modified, "Crawford Cluster" on the left knee for E9th levers... I lower B to Bb (strings 5 & 10) with my left / left / front lever. I've had that change there for some 40 yrs. I have Emmons pedals. It may not work for others but for me, having that change on that lever is much more ergonomic and comfortable. |
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Steve Leal
From:
Orange CA, USA
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Posted 22 Sep 2021 11:14 pm
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I have tried lowering Bs on my zero pedal next to my A pedal but I could never get used to it. I have also had it on a main lever, but I find it most useful on my vertical lever. It is a great modifying change that works with Es raised, Es lowered, A pedal, AB pedals, B pedal while lowering 9, A pedal with Es raised.
I raise sting 6 a whole tone on my zero pedal. It works well with A pedal in open position, also when Es lowered.
On my lever that raises string 1 a whole step and 2 a half step, I lower string 7 a half/whole tone. I get some nice C6 type sounding stuff with the string 6 whole raise and string 7 half lower. |
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Bengt Erlandsen
From:
Brekstad, NORWAY
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Posted 23 Sep 2021 12:41 am
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| Quote: |
| A possible alternative position for lowering the Bs would be RKR, I guess – I hardly ever feel a need to lower strings 2 and 9 |
You would definitly want to be able to lower 2 and 9 to C# at the same time as lowering B's to Bb so that would not be a good sacrifize imo.
That C# is a super useful "Root" note together with maybe E's to F (changes from a minor7th voicing to dom 7)
The B's to Bb will let you move between the b7 or 6th in those same voicings. Split tuned with the A pedal gives you access to a Maj7th or Maj6th or min7th or min6th, all in the same position. This is insanely useful.
Bs to Bb at P0 should work totally fine imo
(try lowering E's at same time if possible and also try lowering 2&9 to C# same time , cool combination)
other options for P0 that also work are
3rd and 6th string G#-G (works excellent together with lever that lowers 2&9 to C#)
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6th string G# to A#(might take a little getting used to to get the most out of it)
Ditching the 2&9 lowering to C# should not be considered at all imo as I see it as one of the "must have" levers. Can I do without it? yes, but I would rather not.
B.Erlandsen
Zumsteel S12extE9 7+7
Last edited by Bengt Erlandsen on 23 Sep 2021 12:56 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Per Berner
From:
Skovde, Sweden
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Posted 23 Sep 2021 12:45 am
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| Bengt Erlandsen wrote: |
| Ditching the 2&9 lowering to C# should not be considered at all imo as I see it as one of the "must have" levers. |
Well, I'm a bit weird and never use strings 1 and 2, and very rarely string 9 (too late to re-learn now), so I would not miss that lever at all! Actually, I would love an 8-string pedal steel with G# as string 1... |
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Bengt Erlandsen
From:
Brekstad, NORWAY
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Posted 23 Sep 2021 1:07 am
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There are always workarounds  . The good thing is that we can customize the instrument with raise and lowers to suit our own playing style so the instrument can replicate what we hear and want to play without too much finger/feet/knee gymnastics. I sometimes prefer less strings and pedals as well.
B.Erlandsen
Zumsteel S12extE9 7+7 |
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Ken Byng
From:
Southampton, England
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Posted 17 Nov 2021 5:18 am
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| Dustin Rigsby wrote: |
| It should be against the law to play that good |
_________________
Show Pro D10 - amber (8+6), MSA D10 Legend XL Signature - redburst (9+6), Sho-Bud Pro 111 Custom (8+6), Emmons black Push-Pull D10 (8+5), Zum D10 (8x8), Hudson pedal resonator. Telonics TCA-500, Webb 614-E, |
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Willis Vanderberg
From:
Petoskey Mi
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Posted 28 Nov 2021 5:27 pm
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I moved my b lowers to RKL as I never cared for the vertical. I don't miss the typical change on RKL either. I am not a lick player.
I love the 2 chord the lowered b's produce in the open position. There are many uses for this too. |
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