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Topic: A question for the pros/teachers |
Josh Moss
From:
Florida, USA
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Posted 1 Sep 2021 10:02 am |
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A recent post by Johnie King brought up something that I've been wondering about lately, which is, What constitutes playing at the pro level? I live in an area with no PSG teachers and have been learning to play the steel through Jeff Newman's instructional dvds. I've been playing for a little over a year now and while I've improved a lot over that time I still don't know where I'm at in the grand scheme of things. Are there benchmarks or any type of criteria that would let a new player that's learning by himself to know where he's at and what to strive for, for getting to the pro level? Is it the ability to improvise, knowing an extensive list of covers, being able to do instrumentals like the guys at ISGC? I'd really appreciate any insight on this.
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Sho~Bud Pro I
Stage One S-10
Moyo VP
Fender Silverface Twin
Peavey Nashville 400 |
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Ricky Davis
From:
Bertram, Texas USA
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Posted 1 Sep 2021 12:47 pm
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"Pro Level"= Wanting to be paid for your service(s),by more than one Employer.
Ricky
_________________
Ricky Davis
Email Ricky: sshawaiian2362@gmail.com |
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Ian Rae
From:
Redditch, England
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Posted 1 Sep 2021 3:46 pm
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Like Ricky says. The fewer players there are in your area, the sooner someone will offer you money. Your actual level of expertise is not important - it's a question of supply and demand.
I've played lots of instruments in different bands over the years. Reliability trumps talent all the way. All you need is a reputation for turning up on time, and the habit of keeping it simple.
_________________
Make sleeping dogs tell the truth!
Homebuilt keyless U12 7x5, Excel keyless U12 8x8, Williams keyless U12 7x8, Telonics rack and 15" cabs |
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Ben Lawson
From:
Brooksville Florida
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Posted 1 Sep 2021 4:51 pm
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| Josh, where in Florida are you? |
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Dustin Rhodes
From:
Owasso OK
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Posted 1 Sep 2021 5:18 pm
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| Ian Rae wrote: |
Like Ricky says. The fewer players there are in your area, the sooner someone will offer you money. Your actual level of expertise is not important - it's a question of supply and demand.
I've played lots of instruments in different bands over the years. Reliability trumps talent all the way. All you need is a reputation for turning up on time, and the habit of keeping it simple. |
I would add that being a good hang is important as well. No one wants a difficult personality. The better you are the more of a pain you can get away with being though haha. |
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Josh Moss
From:
Florida, USA
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Posted 2 Sep 2021 5:26 am
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Thank you guys for the replies. Ben, I'm outside of Jacksonville in Middleburg.
_________________
Sho~Bud Pro I
Stage One S-10
Moyo VP
Fender Silverface Twin
Peavey Nashville 400 |
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b0b
From:
Cloverdale, CA, USA
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Posted 2 Sep 2021 6:33 am
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If you can play in tune and follow the chord progressions, you can play professionally. It's the sound of a pedal steel that most clients want, more than the hot licks.
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-𝕓𝕆𝕓- (admin) - Robert P. Lee - Recordings - Breathe - D6th - Video |
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Bruce Bjork
From:
Southern Coast of Maine
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Posted 2 Sep 2021 7:31 am
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Great post, been playing for four years and I guess I’m definitely a pro.
_________________
Banjo, Dobro, Guild D-40, Telecaster, Justice Pro Lite 3x5, BOSS Katana 100, Peavey Nashville 112 in a Tommy Huff cabinet, Spark, FreeLoader, Baby Bloomer, Peterson StroboPlus HD, Stage One VP.
"Use the talents you possess; the woods would be very silent indeed if no birds sang but the best" |
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Asa Brosius
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Posted 2 Sep 2021 8:10 am
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| Professional simply means being paid for your skill- I've been paid for steel work before I knew how to tune it- it's a term that suffers assumptions of quality, such as 'poet' or 'artist'. I think J.King's post was relative to teaching, and I'll double down on Buck Reid's skill in that regard- I've benefited from his wisdom and teaching style. I'd also recommend P.Franklin and T.Toy's online teaching sites- they're more current than Newman's material, taught by two steel players working at the highest levels, and both offer a community and interactivity, particularly Travis' site. |
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Bobby Martin
From:
Virginia, USA
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Posted 2 Sep 2021 8:41 am "Pro Level" player
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Like plenty of others,I started earning money in bands as a rank beginner but it took five years of club gigs and recording before I could channel things that Buddy Charleton taught me before it felt like I was a "pro".
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Retired my "Flying Pro III" playin' gigs with the "little bud" in the Northern Shenandoah Valley. |
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Ian Rae
From:
Redditch, England
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Posted 2 Sep 2021 3:48 pm
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There's quite a big window called "pro".
If you play in a band and can handle a few dozen songs and get paid for what you do, yes you're a pro.
If you can play in any band, know hundreds of songs and can handle the ones you don't know, then you're a real pro!
_________________
Make sleeping dogs tell the truth!
Homebuilt keyless U12 7x5, Excel keyless U12 8x8, Williams keyless U12 7x8, Telonics rack and 15" cabs |
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Ricky Davis
From:
Bertram, Texas USA
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Posted 2 Sep 2021 4:52 pm
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Ha..Ian:
| Quote: |
| If you can play in any band, know hundreds of songs and can handle the ones you don't know, then you're a real pro! |
ACTUALLY; you are a MORE EXPERIENCED PRO!!!! ha...
Ricky
_________________
Ricky Davis
Email Ricky: sshawaiian2362@gmail.com |
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Dennis Detweiler
From:
Solon, Iowa, US
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Posted 2 Sep 2021 7:01 pm
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How much you put into it is what you get out of it, including proper technique (good habits).
Try to play with musicians that are better than you.
_________________
1976 Birdseye U-12 MSA with Telonics 427 pickup, 1975 Birdseye U-12 MSA with Telonics X-12 pickup, Revelation preamp, Carbon Copy Delay and Hall Of Fame Reverb, Crown XLS 1002, 2- 15" Eminence Wheelhouse speakers, ShoBud Pedal, Effects Pedals. 1949 Epiphone D-8. |
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Ian Rae
From:
Redditch, England
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Posted 2 Sep 2021 11:26 pm
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Yes, Ricky - it's all relative. Professionalism is an attitude, not a fee.
Also, I'm lucky that I do play with guys who are all better than me, so I feel under constant pressure to improve. They don't sense that, 'cos they just love the sound!
_________________
Make sleeping dogs tell the truth!
Homebuilt keyless U12 7x5, Excel keyless U12 8x8, Williams keyless U12 7x8, Telonics rack and 15" cabs |
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Tony Prior
From:
Charlotte NC
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Posted 3 Sep 2021 12:18 am
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do you fit in "socially" ?
Do you blatantly offer your opinions when they are not requested ?
can you identify with the music + songs that you are not familiar with ?
Are you well "ear trained" ?
Can you grab and execute a stock intro or turn around from the 5 if requested ?
Do you know what that means ?
Do you know when NOT to play , especially on songs you know well ?
Can you communicate with other lead instruments with only eye contact ?
do you dress neat / clean and are you an on time person ?
etc...
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Just a few things which really have very little to do to with SKILL level.
Skill Level gets you the 1st phone call.
We have all associated with players over the years who were great players/performers who missed a few of the items above and more.
Many of us WERE those players and it took several years to NOT be one of those players. 
Like the add says:
"Wanted - Young executive with 25 years experience" 
Grab the 1st few gigs and hang on !
First thing we learn is we ain't nearly as skilled as we thought, 2nd thing we learn is how to fit in because they may not much care if we ain't so skilled !
And this:
Playing in a band with 4 or 5 other musicians can be like having 4 or 5 wives at the same time. They are arguing with each other, and with you, all at the same time !
_________________
Emmons L-II , Fender Telecasters, B-Benders , Eastman Mandolin ,
Pro Tools 12 on WIN 7 !
jobless- but not homeless- now retired 9 years
CURRENT MUSIC TRACKS AT > https://tprior2241.wixsite.com/website |
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Larry Dering
From:
Missouri, USA
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Posted 3 Sep 2021 5:22 am
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| Tony, all my x wives in the same band? I pass on being a professional. Lol |
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b0b
From:
Cloverdale, CA, USA
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Posted 3 Sep 2021 7:35 am
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Here are two tips a pro taught me.
1. Don't play anything between sound check and the first song.
2. Don't play anything between songs.
These two things go a long way in establishing a sense of professionalism to the audience and to fellow musicians.
_________________
-𝕓𝕆𝕓- (admin) - Robert P. Lee - Recordings - Breathe - D6th - Video |
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Dana Blodgett
From:
California, USA
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Posted 3 Sep 2021 6:47 pm
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I sometimes wish there was a “like” button on this forum.
I don’t have much to say but I agree with b0b on his two points, and #2 drives me completely crazy.
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Dana Blodgett
From Los Osos,Ca.
'74 ShoBud 6140 3+4, Martins HD28,D-12-28, D-15,'65 Gibson LG-1, '77 Gibson Les Paul special dbl cut p-90's, Les Paul Special p-100's,Les paul Special Hybrid(maple top) hbkr's,'68 Fender Strat reissue, Fender Squire Jazz bass,Epi mandolin,Epi Wilshire '66 reissue, Kamaka Concert uke, 70's Kamaka Soprano Uke, Fender Super amp, Ampeg ba112 bass amp,60's harmony banjo,'00 Gibson SG Supreme |
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Lane Gray
From:
Topeka, KS
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Posted 4 Sep 2021 2:13 pm
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Playing "at the pro level" means a handful of things
You can play in tune, in time
If you're due onstage, you'll be there early enough to setup and tune
Your playing has developed to the point where the bandmates aren't saying (or thinking) "sure, they suck, but we need a steel" (my first couple of bands, I probably fell in there, but playing in a band schools you quick)
That bit about not noodling before, and between songs? Yeah, that matters
Only overplaying when it's called for, and learning when it is vs when it isn't (my dad is a Hall of Fame bluegrass bassist. He got fired from Bill Emerson's band for not toning it down. He regards that as an important lesson)
_________________
2 pedal steels, a lapStrat, and an 8-string Dobro (and 3 ukes)
More amps than guitars, and not many effects |
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Butch Mullen
From:
North Carolina, USA 28681
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Posted 4 Sep 2021 5:23 pm
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| Glade you are back, Lane. We miss your tips and advice. Butch in NC |
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Ian Rae
From:
Redditch, England
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Posted 5 Sep 2021 1:32 am
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Me too.
Dana, if there was a like button we'd never have known you were watching!
_________________
Make sleeping dogs tell the truth!
Homebuilt keyless U12 7x5, Excel keyless U12 8x8, Williams keyless U12 7x8, Telonics rack and 15" cabs |
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Chris Brooks
From:
Providence, Rhode Island
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Posted 5 Sep 2021 5:50 am
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| Agree with bOb, Lane, and Dana. No noodling. Or if you noodle (or need to warm up), turn the volume to 0. |
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Dana Blodgett
From:
California, USA
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Posted 5 Sep 2021 9:53 am
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Ian , I truly appreciate your comments, especially about tuning…
I watch almost daily but don’t post that much any more.
I’ve been playing guitar for 60 yrs now and I’m still learning new stuff almost daily. I do play an instrument daily wether it be a guitar, psg, mandolin,bass, uke,I haven’t touched the banjo or keyboards in probably 20 yrs. , but it’s still there if I need to go to it.
Lately Im enjoying my Martin’s big time, been playin’ in a dropped C tuning lately for kicks I guess.
Sure beats watching the TV.
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Dana Blodgett
From Los Osos,Ca.
'74 ShoBud 6140 3+4, Martins HD28,D-12-28, D-15,'65 Gibson LG-1, '77 Gibson Les Paul special dbl cut p-90's, Les Paul Special p-100's,Les paul Special Hybrid(maple top) hbkr's,'68 Fender Strat reissue, Fender Squire Jazz bass,Epi mandolin,Epi Wilshire '66 reissue, Kamaka Concert uke, 70's Kamaka Soprano Uke, Fender Super amp, Ampeg ba112 bass amp,60's harmony banjo,'00 Gibson SG Supreme |
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b0b
From:
Cloverdale, CA, USA
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Posted 5 Sep 2021 10:12 am
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| Dana Blodgett wrote: |
| I haven’t touched the banjo or keyboards in probably 20 yrs. |
 <big grin>
_________________
-𝕓𝕆𝕓- (admin) - Robert P. Lee - Recordings - Breathe - D6th - Video |
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Rich Upright
From:
Florida, USA
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Posted 10 Sep 2021 10:41 am
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I think you are a pro when the same band calls you for your SECOND gig with them.
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A couple D-10s,some vintage guitars & amps, & lotsa junk in the gig bag. |
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