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Topic: Excel vs. Emmons string spacing |
Dave Mudgett
From:
Central Pennsylvania and Gallatin, Tennessee
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Posted 26 Aug 2021 7:58 am |
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| Jerry Jones wrote: |
| While tapered string width may well be a holdover from Spanish guitar, an equal string spacing would require wider decking to accommodate 10th key to 1st key spacing as well as preventing D10 key interference. |
Yep, it would require a wider deck, which would definitely be my preference anyway, especially on an S10 or S12. I'm too tall to deal with a narrow single-neck guitar. Of course, this issue could be rendered moot with a keyless design. |
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Lynn Kasdorf
From:
Waterford Virginia, USA
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Posted 26 Aug 2021 7:59 am
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I measured a few lap steels and pedal steel I have and they all taper towards the nut. I truly do not understand why this became a standard thing to do as steel guitars developed.
Maybe it was just one of those things like "this is hw it has always been done". But there must be more to it.
I wonder if there has ever been a lap or pedal steel that had the same spacing at the nut as the bridge?
My best guess is this: it is easier to pick individual strings when they are a bit farther apart, so wider at the bridge is good. But this extra width at the other end would require a bit more vertical bar movement or longer bar. The ergonomics of this are pretty fascinating.
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"You call that thing a guitar?" |
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Ian Rae
From:
Redditch, England
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Posted 26 Aug 2021 8:37 am
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Somebody at some point must have built a pedal steel with parallel spacing if only out of curiosity.
It clearly didn't catch on or we'd all be playing them.
But we still lack a theoretical explanation.
Anyone else care to try? 
_________________
Make sleeping dogs tell the truth!
Homebuilt keyless U12 7x5, Excel keyless U12 8x8, Williams keyless U12 7x8, Telonics rack and 15" cabs |
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Pete McAvity
From:
St. Louis, Missouri USA
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Posted 26 Aug 2021 8:48 am
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My main guitar is a Superb D10. I sat at one of Steve Hitsman’s Legrandes recently and it felt like playing gut string flamenco after being accustomed to a tele. Doesn’t look much different to the naked eye, but the differences can account for a lot of clonks until your brain, eyes & hands adjust.
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Excel Superb D10, Sarno Black Box or Freeloader, Goodrich L120, Boss DD5, Baby Bloomer, 1965 Super Reverb chopped to a head, feeding a mystery PA cab w/ a K130.
They say "thats how it goes". I say "that ain't the way it stays!" |
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Tucker Jackson
From:
Portland, Oregon, USA
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Posted 26 Aug 2021 8:55 am
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| Ian Rae wrote: |
| But we still lack a theoretical explanation. |
Speculation: It's about the keyhead. If the string spacing was as wide at the nut as it is at the bridge, the 1st and 10th strings would have to cut over at a really strong angle on the way to the tuning post in the keyhead. Hysteresis City. |
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Lynn Kasdorf
From:
Waterford Virginia, USA
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Posted 26 Aug 2021 9:31 am
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| Tucker Jackson wrote: |
| Ian Rae wrote: |
| But we still lack a theoretical explanation. |
Speculation: It's about the keyhead. If the string spacing was as wide at the nut as it is at the bridge, the 1st and 10th strings would have to cut over at a really strong angle on the way to the tuning post in the keyhead. Hysteresis City. |
True- with traditional keyhead design. But not with a keyless.
_________________
"You call that thing a guitar?" |
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Dave Mudgett
From:
Central Pennsylvania and Gallatin, Tennessee
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Posted 26 Aug 2021 9:43 am
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| Tucker Jackson wrote: |
| Ian Rae wrote: |
| But we still lack a theoretical explanation. |
Speculation: It's about the keyhead. If the string spacing was as wide at the nut as it is at the bridge, the 1st and 10th strings would have to cut over at a really strong angle on the way to the tuning post in the keyhead. Hysteresis City. |
Not sure I see that. On a properly designed keyhead, the tuning key post will move over commensurately with the roller nut position. But with any keyhead, I always have to put enough winds on the post to bring the string takeoff point reasonably in line with the nut roller. That is required regardless of the width of the nut, keyhead, or anything else.
Example - my Zum U12. I could clearly use an extra wind or two on the bottom strings, I was probably in a rush. And string 5 was just a real sloppy fast change after a string broke right before we started playing last week - it's time for new strings! But it is possible to line them up by simply putting the right number of windings on the post. It's a good idea to put several windings on anyway, from a string breakage point of view. Definitely don't want the string to break off close to the tuning post hole.
And definitely - this is all moot with a keyless design. |
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Steve Knight
From:
NC
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Posted 26 Aug 2021 10:58 am
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| It would be nice to have a little more room between the tuning pegs on strings 5 & 6. |
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b0b
From:
Cloverdale, CA, USA
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Posted 26 Aug 2021 11:09 am
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My first Williams, a D-10, had a traditional keyhead and the string spacing was too narrow for my liking. I requested 11/32" spacing on my 2nd Williams, a D-12, and Bill Rudolph said no problem as long as it's keyless. He built it that way and I was quite happy with it.
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Chris Templeton
From:
The Green Mountain State
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Posted 26 Aug 2021 12:50 pm
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Buddy had been playing keyless Sierras and probably had three or four, but his last Sierra, he had it with keys because he said that is what people were used to seeing.
I'm guessing the need for three hands when changing a string might have had something to do with it too.
I'm not sure if he had Danny Shields pickups in the Sierras, but he loved the sound of the C6th neck.
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"The Tapper" : https://christophertempleton.bandcamp.com/album/the-tapper
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