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Topic: Differences of different pedal steel guitars |
Gerd Kaindlstorfer
From:
Austria
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Posted 12 Jul 2021 5:01 am |
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Hello my pedal steel friends. Im still a beginner in pedal steel playing. I have WBS pedal steel. I could read that different brands sounds different. Can you please tell me the sounddifferences of for example a zumsteel, franklin, emmons, sho bud, sierra...
And which are most wanted pedal steels? Or is this just a personal preference? |
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Joe Krumel
From:
Hermitage, Tn.
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Posted 12 Jul 2021 5:39 am differences
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| Hi Gerd.In my limited opinion,I would say so much depends on the individual ear,player etc. I've owned ShoBuds,BMI,GFI they have differences but not huge to me. JK |
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Ian Rae
From:
Redditch, England
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Posted 12 Jul 2021 5:44 am
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Like any musical instrument, steels all sound roughly the same.
The differences are a matter of personal taste. Every player has a sound in his or her head, and the best instrument is the one that achieves it most naturally.
_________________
Make sleeping dogs tell the truth!
Homebuilt keyless U12 7x5, Excel keyless U12 8x8, Williams keyless U12 7x8, Telonics rack and 15" cabs |
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Gerd Kaindlstorfer
From:
Austria
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Posted 12 Jul 2021 7:11 am
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| I just heard , that the emmons and franklins are the one, the most are looking for... |
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Tucker Jackson
From:
Portland, Oregon, USA
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Posted 12 Jul 2021 10:25 am
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Gerd, the WBS is a very good guitar. It sounds quite similar to the other modern all-pull guitars (as the guys here have said, they ALL sound close to one another, especially if they have the same pickup).
Emmons Original (vintage push-pulls) do sound a little unique compared to modern all-pull guitars. They are brighter and ring like a bell.
Franklins are all-pull, but seem to have a little different peak in the upper midrange that sits very well in a mix. There aren't that many out there and that adds to the value (3 or 4 times the value of other steels).
Here is a video with 6 pedal steels dubbed into the same song so you can hear what I'm talking about. There's no Franklin here, but we have push-pulls and all-pulls. We even have Emmons in two flavors: a more modern all-pull (a Lashley LeGrande) so we can hear it beside a couple of other Emmons that are push-pulls (Originals).
Steel players' ears are finely tuned to the nuances between them, so we can hear the difference (I love that '67 Emmons Bolt-on).
But we can also sense that a random person on the street would find them all quite similar. Try closing your eyes and listening to this video and you'll see what I mean.
Six Different Pedal Steel Guitars:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fpn55HVAoEg
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Johnie King
From:
Tennessee, USA
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Posted 12 Jul 2021 12:00 pm
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| This is cool watch look an listen. |
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Joe Krumel
From:
Hermitage, Tn.
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Posted 12 Jul 2021 12:07 pm 6 steels
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| I enjoyed the heck out of that.There was one emmons in that bunch that was incredible. wish I knew more about their differences other than P/P and allpull.time to do some searching. |
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Jon Light
From:
Saugerties, NY
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Posted 12 Jul 2021 2:02 pm
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What a beautiful job by Sveinung Lilleheier, SveinungL here on the SGF. Sweet playing and a very well executed demo.
Did I hear differences? Yes. Did I have preferences? Yes. Was there a single guitar there that wouldn't have been just fine on a bandstand? Nope.
This is not to be confused with claiming that there aren't dogs out there. But a person playing as long as Sveinung clearly has, has kept/acquired an assortment of good guitars. Any dogs are long gone, one would think.
re: the statement that Emmons & Franklin are "the ones", tell the thousands of Sho-Bud players that they are playing the wrong steel. That's just an embarrassing statement. |
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Brint Hannay
From:
Maryland, USA
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Posted 12 Jul 2021 2:12 pm
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That was fun to listen to--I didn't close my eyes because I really didn't have any preconceived ideas about the various guitars.
FWIW (which isn't much, considering the source), I found two of the guitars stood out: the bolt-on, with that extra bite and clarity, but I liked the Anapeg best--sweetly musical (I don't know how to describe it more precisely).
Of course, the playing was superb throughout. |
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Joe Krumel
From:
Hermitage, Tn.
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Posted 12 Jul 2021 2:46 pm
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| Brint; yeah that Anapeg was awesome. I often wondered about the hype of Emmons guitars,but I have to say the Bolt on type is outstanding in his hands on the video. |
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David Mitchell
From:
Tyler, Texas
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Posted 12 Jul 2021 8:59 pm
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I believe it has more to do with the instruments response in the players hands than actual sound coming from the instrument. Something felt more than heard.
I was reading about violins as I was a collector for a while. It was not uncommon for a violinist to play violins costing a million to several million dollars. When the master violinist were asked if they sounded a million dollars better than a $15k violin they said probably not to the audience but it responds to my playing and input and consequently I can play my best when the instrument feels and sounds right to my ear.
They all said the same thing. Like someone said in a previous comment, the listener may not can hear a difference but the player can tell. Of course you have to reach a certain degree of playing ability before you will know exactly what you want out of the instrument. |
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Dan Kelly
From:
Boston, MA
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Posted 13 Jul 2021 12:00 am
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Thank you Tucker, for posting that link. It certainly was a very interesting demonstration. Sveinung Lilleheier did a great job, all around; great playing, recording and even song choice and interpretation. Nice!
As many have already stated, much of the search for our own sound or tone is lost on the audience. This may be true. However, I have noticed that I play with more motivation, seriousness and dedication with a PSG with which I have a certain connection. And, that connection depends on the sound, tone and mechanics of the PSG through the "right" amplification and effects chain and general feel.
To my ears, at least, the 67 Bolt On had a very distinct and recognizable sound.
_________________
blah, blah, blah.
Hey You Kids! Get Off My Lawn!
blah, blah, blah. |
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Marty Broussard
From:
Broussard, Louisiana, USA
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Posted 13 Jul 2021 3:36 am
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THAT is pure artistry. Thank you for posting the link.
_________________
RETIRED
"Technique is really the elimination of the unnecessary..it is a constant effort to avoid any personal impediment or obstacle to achieve the smooth flow of energy and intent" Yehudi Menuhin |
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Peter Harris
From:
South Australia, Australia
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Posted 13 Jul 2021 4:43 am
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Agree wholeheartedly that there are obvious differences in the 'sound' that is put out through the 1/4" jack of differing steels...
BUT (and I think it's equally important to realise) that in a practical sense, all these instruments rely on being amplified..
...therefore, without also considering just what it is that is providing the amplification, there is a section of this argument that is ignoring 50% of the equation.
Then, take it further and divide that by the input of the specific PLAYER...and you can probably cut all that in half one more time again... 
What any 'audience' can actually compare is only the ultimate end-product.
Just saying.... 
...and I support all the points raised in Dan Kelly's post !! 
_________________
If my wife is reading this, I don't have much stuff....really! |
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David Mitchell
From:
Tyler, Texas
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Posted 13 Jul 2021 5:36 am
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After I closed my studio about 5 years ago and sold my API Legacy recording console I had $35,000 to blow so I bought a bunch of steel guitars that I thought had a unique sound and they did. All very unique in tone and not hard for a non musician to tell the difference.
I had all these pedal steels in the same room in my studio where I had the same acoustics and same amplifiers. The steels were a Fender 2000, 69 ZB Custom, Sho-Bud Fingertip, MSA Classic with SS pickups, 73 Sho-Bud Pro ll, 75 Sho-Bud Pro lll, 71 Emmons push pull freshly built by Bryan Adams and Emmons Legrande lll I bought from Walter Haynes widow. Walter played steel and fiddle in my band for 10 years before his death. He had two Legrande lll's alike. One was red and one was black.
All these steels had distinctly different tones and easy to tell the difference. Then I purchased some newer guitars and brought them to the same room and that was Fessenden, Rains and Mullen. The Fessenden, Rains and Mullen sounded a lot like the Emmons Legrande lll and with the same pickups much harder to tell the difference in sound. The older guitars were all built radically different and much heavier in weight and all but the push pull were physically larger than the newer guitars. So my conclusion is if you want to sound like everyone else buy all new stuff because builders although slightly different are pretty much designing the same way now. If you want very different and retro sound the old steels can do that. With that said a player still has to connect to the instrument to put their heart and soul into playing.
Last edited by David Mitchell on 13 Jul 2021 5:48 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Roger Rettig
From:
Naples, FL
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Posted 13 Jul 2021 5:43 am
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Beautiful playing!!!
Another vote here for the Anapeg - for me, it had the most well-rounded tone. The dullest sounding guitar (I thought) was the old MSA but that wasn't awful, by any means.
What a fine video he's produced here!
_________________
Roger Rettig: Emmons D10, B-bender Teles and Martins - and, at last, a Gibson Super 400!
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David Mitchell
From:
Tyler, Texas
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Posted 13 Jul 2021 5:54 am
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| Yes! Great demonstration there. Beautiful playing. Sounds like Lloyd! |
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Gerd Kaindlstorfer
From:
Austria
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Posted 13 Jul 2021 11:53 am
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| Thank you very much to all for the infos.....as i looked to the video, there are some differences, but its just a personal preference. which sound somebody like most.....that info was very helpful.... |
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Larry Bressington
From:
Nebraska
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Posted 19 Jul 2021 10:27 am
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One thing to keep in mind also, is that every guitar even in the same brand and model will sound different, this is due to the tree having it's own DNA and the way it naturally resonates, this is seldom noticed due to the fact that very few of us have multiple guitars side by side of the same make and model to witness this.
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A.K.A Chappy. |
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David Mitchell
From:
Tyler, Texas
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Posted 19 Jul 2021 11:05 am
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| Larry Bressington wrote: |
| One thing to keep in mind also, is that every guitar even in the same brand and model will sound different, this is due to the tree having it's own DNA and the way it naturally resonates, this is seldom noticed due to the fact that very few of us have multiple guitars side by side of the same make and model to witness this. |
Expounding on what Larry said, Gene Fields when he started EMCI used butcher block style laminated maple tops on the one piece aluminum bodies. I have some. Each maple strip is only about an inch wide. He did that to get a consistent tone from guitar to guitar. He later reported that it made no difference. Each instrument has a unique voice no matter what. Similar but no cigars.
Last edited by David Mitchell on 19 Jul 2021 12:45 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Jim Sliff
From:
Lawndale California, USA
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Posted 19 Jul 2021 12:35 pm
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Read a few books about "guitar tone" because the same rules apply: the physical materials; how they are attached; weight and density of materials (especially hardwoods, which 1) are preferable tonewise and 2) have tonal "signatures" which vary based on size, weight cut etc); pickup voicing and amount of output.; pickup position in relationship to the bridge and nut (there are different harmonics at different points)...
That will gve you an idea of how tone WORKS. But understanding differences between guitars takes listening to SPECIFIC guitars - as not all guitars of the same brand/model sound the same.
And every piece of inboard/outboard gear changes the tone - IMO pedal steels should have volume and tone circuits - the volume controls affect tone differently than volume pedals. Cable brand/length; tuners...
And the thing most neglected - the amplifier and speaker. Those can have more affect on the tone than the guitar construction.
_________________
No chops, but great tone
1930's/40's Rickenbacher/Rickenbacker 6&8 string lap steels
1921 Weissenborn Style 2; Hilo&Schireson hollownecks
Appalachian, Regal & Dobro squarenecks
1959 Fender 400 9+2 B6;1960's Fender 800 3+3+2; 1948 Fender Dual-8 Professional |
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SveinungL
From:
Gjøvik - Norway - Europe - Earth
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Posted 1 Oct 2024 11:39 pm
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Thanks for all the nice comments guys. I just now found these posts about my video. 
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Thanks Sveinung Lilleheier
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My web page |
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