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Topic: String 3 G# keeps breaking!! Please help. |
Jeff Neal
From:
Johnson City Tennessee, USA
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Posted 21 Jun 2021 8:12 pm |
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| The only two places a string has friction is at the nut or the bridge. If it’s not an issue there it’s a tension issue. Make sure you’re tuning to the right pitch. Make sure the pedals are not pulling to far. Might need a good set up from an experienced steel guitar guy. Don’t know anything about the Zum but I rarely ever break a third. You clearly have an issue and I hope we can help you figure it out. |
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Helmut Gragger
From:
Austria
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Posted 2 Jul 2021 10:13 pm
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As Ben has said, he used stock .011‘s. I found out that the ones used for PSG are a higher quality, usually with the suffix ‚pg‘. See my previous post. The standard ones will blow. This does not seem a problem for the other strings though. They are stock.
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feel at home at: http://me.aquataur.guru |
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Frank Freniere
From:
The First Coast
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Posted 3 Jul 2021 5:18 am
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| Ben Carbone wrote: |
| Found this thread because I am having issues myself. I bought a stage one from a great guy on the forum. The strings looked very old but I had no issues. Changed the strings to SITs, 3rd string popped while tuning up and then the second one stayed awhile but popped again. Grabbed some D’Addario 11s from the store by me because that’s what they had and I popped 4 in a row. Played two songs on one of them then that popped, the rest popped while tuning up. I asked the original owner what strings he used so mostly venting on the thread but also curious if anyone has experienced this with a stage one |
Huh - similar.
Put a .012 GHS stainless G# on my Encore three days ago. Yesterday it popped when I pushed the B pedal. Put on another GHS .012 - also popped while pushing the pedal. Viewed the Mullen stringing video, strung up a GHS .115, began pushing the pedal and pop it went! Looks like all 3 strings gave at the capstan.
I don't know if it's the proverbial "bad batch" gremlin or there's a burr in the capstan but it's driving me nuts. So now I'm out of .012's and I have a gig (the first in over a year) next week.
Unless Hurricane Elsa decides otherwise... 
What does the hive mind think?
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Georg Sørtun
From:
Mandal, Agder, Norway
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Posted 3 Jul 2021 7:03 am
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Scrub the tuner-shaft thoroughly with Scotch-Brite or similar, to remove all sharp edges and burrs.
Remove all dust and dirt after the operation. Put at least twice as many turns of string on the shaft than you had before. Hope for the best. |
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Ian Rae
From:
Redditch, England
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Posted 3 Jul 2021 4:00 pm
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I've scanned this thread for any mention of scale length. Is this because we're talking exclusively about P/Ps and everybody knows what the scale length is?
On my Excel, which is 25½" scale, I have to use GHS strings (the original fitment). Others have failed and Mitsuo himself says that stringing up the 3rd makes him nervous. On my Williams (24¼") there is no such anxiety. Is the P/P long scale? - I know little about them except that people like the sound enough to forgo some changes.
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Make sleeping dogs tell the truth!
Homebuilt keyless U12 7x5, Excel keyless U12 8x8, Williams keyless U12 7x8, Telonics rack and 15" cabs |
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Helmut Gragger
From:
Austria
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Posted 5 Jul 2021 1:21 am
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Actually, I have thought about this before.
Nobody mentions scale length.
I have come to the following conclusions for myself: (not trying to create the impression like I know all...)
The tension on any given string on your guitar is a product of the scale length, the tuning, and the mass of that individual gauged string. As a result, when you increase the scale length on your guitar, you’re going to have more tension, even if you’re tuning to the same pitch and keeping your gage of string the exact same. What this means is, on a 27-inch scale guitar, a set of 10s tuned to E standard is going to have quite a bit more tension on it than that same set of 10s tuned to E standard on a 25-1/2 inch scale guitar. Conversely, if you have, like, a 22-1/2 inch scale guitar or something around there, a set of 10s is going to feel way, way lighter. It’s going to have not nearly as much tension as it would on a standard scale guitar. from https://stringjoy.com/guitar-scale-length-explained/
It is quite logical. If you fret a string, it gets higher. Conversely, the longer a string, the lower it sounds for a given tension. Bringing a longer string (in this case scale length) up to previous pitch, you have to tighten it up.
This means that a 0.011, which is already stretched to way beyond it would be on a standard guitar, is stretched even more on a long scale guitar.
In effect, if you went with something like a 9-1/2 on the top end of your 26-1/2 inch scale length guitar, it would feel fairly comparable to a 10 [on a 25-1/2 guitar]. In actuality, it would have a little bit too little tension, but at a certain point here we can only get so specific when it comes to gauge. (same source)
The answer is: go down a half step, if that exists. It will have the same perceived playing feeling as on a shorter scale guitar. To my understanding, all the other strings would have to go down too.
Excel might have chosen the set, because the gauges are ubiquitous and common for steels, but some "universal" sets use bigger gauges. This does not apparently damage things. I´d go with a 0.10 1/2pg if you suspect.
If you stepped down the others too, you may find that you can use other brands. And use the "pg" variety for #3, I think this is crucial.
Hope this helped.
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feel at home at: http://me.aquataur.guru |
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Stan Joyce
From:
California, USA
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Posted 12 Jul 2021 9:29 am
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Years ago, I had the same issue with breaking the 3rd string. I called the steel guitar builder and he said, "How long you been playing?"
And then he gave me some valuable tips: Burrs, etc. Also, I lower the string before cutting. Or I change the string after every 4th gig to keep from breaking during a live set.
So, using the 3 or 4 wraps around the post and checking for burrs is all good. Never use a drill or wrap to fast. I had a batch of old strings and every single one broke. When the string snaps it can leave a burr on the roller. And all of the other advice is great. |
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Jack Hargraves
From:
Missouri, USA
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Posted 15 Jul 2021 6:55 am
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I have been using S.I.T. Buddy Emmons series for several years and have never broken an 11 ga. string. I start winding on one side of the capstan, then cross over to the other side and finish winding. It works well for me.
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GFI Expo SD10, Nashville 112, Steelers choice Pak-a- seat, Carter vol. pedal, Stage one vol. pedal, Peavey Deltafex. Goodrich volume pedal. |
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Jerry Overstreet
From:
Louisville Ky
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Posted 15 Jul 2021 9:00 am
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I admit I didn't read all the replies in this thread but I'll offer some general issues: If the string is breaking at the tuner post, there's a problem with a burr or sharp edge on the post, or the string crossing over itself. If it's breaking at the roller bridge, it's common string fatigue after many pedaled changes.
If it's breaking between those points, it's a bad string period.
It's possible to have a bad enough burr on a bridge roller to damage a new string, but that would very obvious.
If you have tried to de-burr the post unsucessfully, try swapping the tuner with another one like maybe a wound 7 if they are the same on both sides, or another maybe string 1 or 2 if you don't have pulls on those.
A good string will go up there right away. No need to do it in intervals. If it's any good it'll go. You can let it sit overnight or a week...that won't help if it's a bad one.
I don't really know the reason, but it does seem to help on the 3rd string if you put a few more windings...I guess it moves it away from the hole.
Bad strings are common though, I have seen whole pkgs. of 6 that were bad from the suppliers and would break before reaching or even near pitch.
Don't buy cheap strings. Use those that are packaged and marketed for pedal steel. They don't cost that much more. Even then you can get a bad one now and then, but that narrows down that possibility. |
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Helmut Gragger
From:
Austria
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Posted 16 Jul 2021 5:11 am
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| Jerry Overstreet wrote: |
| I admit I didn't read all the replies in this thread |
Common... 
Three decades ago I first started with PSG (I started again several times...). All there was as an information resource was Scotty´s magazine.
I wound the guitar with standard guitar strings (presumably D´Addario) and bang she went.
In retrospect, it was probably only the 3rd string.
I went and bought some dedicated PSG strings, a pack of GHS. The 3rd went. I did not know how much of a sissy that was and most certainly did not do all that dance with winding.
I then bought George-L stainless steel PSG strings and no trouble at all. The logical (but mislead) conclusion was: it has to be dedicated PSG strings.
Now that would have been the end of that rigmarole, if not it took weeks and weeks to have them sent over by stagecoach.
Meanwhile, I have grown fond of Pyramid, which is a local maker (as local as it gets I mean). I can buy individual strings by packs to never run out of spares. I have virtually all my stringed instruments eqipped with their strings.
It is not that I believe their quality is better or worse than anybody else´s, they are just quick and handy - and much cheaper due to their origin.
They have a series of nickel and stainless steel strings for steel guitars, but unfortunately their catalog is very old timey. They showed interest to improve this, but I see no change.
They allegedly cooperated with a PSG musician that appeared to be known locally, but is long gone. Even the company that bought his company has dropped all PSG related products ten years ago.
The interesting bit is that they told me that their PSG strings are nothing special - except the 0.011 EXTRA STAHL Qualität (akin to the .pg quality SIT and GHS have).
Their strings are all round core.
The zing problem I have (and discussed here somewhere) mainly concerns plain strings, no such a thing on wound ones, and there mainly the 4th.
I tried several things to remedy that (and failed as many others...) and in the course blew the one that was there. I had a brand new SIT that behaves exaclty the same, so there is no concern it is their steel quality.
PSGs are a torture rack for strings by producing much higher tensions than a stock guitar - you don´t have to fret... This appears to be no big problem except for the 3rd.
I have been thumping on the last Pyramid set for quite a while now, and they last and deliver. I don´t see any problem yet with them being plain vanilla. YMMV.
_________________
feel at home at: http://me.aquataur.guru |
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Larry Dering
From:
Missouri, USA
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Posted 17 Jul 2021 5:58 am
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| I bought plain single strings from Just Strings online and Squire strings from Musicians Friend as spares for the 3rd, 4th, 5 and 6th and had no real issues with them. I don't care for the wrap at the ball end but they work. Otherwise SIT strings do well for me l |
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Glenn Demichele
From:
(20mi N of) Chicago Illinois, USA
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Posted 18 Jul 2021 12:36 pm
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This is an old thread with lots of good new replies - old problems never die (like JI vs. ET). I'm chiming in because of what happened last night, and Tony Prior even mentioned this in 2010. During sound check for a big show last night, I tuned up my guitar, which was all flat because of temperature (so I thought). I played a couple tunes and broke the 0.011 (at the bridge). I then proceeded to break three more when winding them up (at the post). I was naturally freaking out, then happened to notice my tuner mysteriously was set to 445. I dropped it back to 440, and the last 0.011 held through the show and through practice today. I still think I have a bad batch of strings because I can NOT believe that I have less than a semitone margin before I break that string! I WISH manufacturers (or a dedicated forumite) would compile statistical data to see how high one can crank an 0.011 before it breaks. You know: B0b, is there a way to start a poll? Before a string change, if everybody on the forum took the time to crank up string 3 and broke it (safety glasses please) and made a note of how high it got and what brand of string they used (probably wouldn't make much difference), and where it broke (post, nut, middle, bridge), that would be incredibly useful. Thanks
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Helmut Gragger
From:
Austria
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Posted 19 Jul 2021 2:28 am
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... and what scale length they have!
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feel at home at: http://me.aquataur.guru |
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