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Topic: E9 6th string tuning instability. |
Greg Gefell
From:
Upstate NY
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Posted 7 Jul 2021 7:32 am |
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I recently switched from using a wound .22 to a .20 plain. I love the softer feel/shorter throw on the full step knee lever lower but the string itself now feels like a rubber band and is much more finicky about staying in tune. Would using a .22 or even a .24 plain help this due to its increased tension?
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https://www.facebook.com/ggefell/ |
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Richard Sinkler
From:
aka: Rusty Strings -- Missoula, Montana
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Posted 7 Jul 2021 8:29 am
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I prefer a .022p. Even using a .020p as I am with this last set of NYXL strings, I don't see any tuning issues. I reallh like the .022p the best. Can not stand a wound on there.
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Carter D10 8p/8k, Dekley S10 3p/4k C6 setup,Regal RD40 Dobro, Recording King Professional Dobro, NV400, NV112,Ibanez Gio guitar, Epiphone SG Special (open D slide guitar) . Playing for 54 years and still counting. |
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Bob Hoffnar
From:
Austin, Tx
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Posted 7 Jul 2021 9:57 pm
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I switched to a 22 wound and never looked back. Way more stable.
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Bob |
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Tony Prior
From:
Charlotte NC
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Posted 8 Jul 2021 12:50 am
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22P for me.
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Emmons L-II , Fender Telecasters, B-Benders , Eastman Mandolin ,
Pro Tools 12 on WIN 7 !
jobless- but not homeless- now retired 9 years
CURRENT MUSIC TRACKS AT > https://tprior2241.wixsite.com/website |
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Donny Hinson
From:
Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.
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Posted 8 Jul 2021 1:50 am
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| I use a .024w, not as much for tuning but to get away from the "boingy" sound of a plain string. The timbre also matches up better with the 6th and 10th, and gives me an octave of plain (3,4,5) and an octave of wound (6,8,10) strings. |
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Jack Stoner
From:
Kansas City, MO
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Posted 8 Jul 2021 2:25 am
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| I used a .020P on the Franklin I had (for 38 years) as that was what Franklin recommended. Never had an issue with that. I'm using a .020P on the GFI that I now have and same way, no problems. I raise and lower the 6th string. I tried a .022P on both the Franklin and the GFI and didn't like it. |
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Jon Light
From:
Saugerties, NY
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Posted 8 Jul 2021 2:37 am
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In theory, the higher tension of the heavier plain .022 vs. .020 will make it more sensitive to detuning (thermal and cab-drop) for the same reasons that it will also require a hair less pedal travel. IMO the 6th string challenges the physics of string gauges. For the steel guitar scale of 24" to 24.5", it is a heavy piece of wire, unwound. And a light piece, wound. Each has issues.
I recently worked on someone's guitar that had an above average amount of 'cabinet drop'. The plain 6 dove a LOT of cents with the A pedal. I changed it to a wound string and rerodded it. Pretty much night & day.
I've been using .024w on my guitars for a lot of years now. |
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Greg Gefell
From:
Upstate NY
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Posted 8 Jul 2021 10:01 am
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Thanks for the perspectives. I’ll try a couple different gauges and see what I think. I might wind up back with the wound string but it’s tough to get a full step lower with that long throw.
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https://www.facebook.com/ggefell/ |
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Jon Light
From:
Saugerties, NY
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Posted 8 Jul 2021 10:13 am
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| Greg Gefell wrote: |
| ....... but it’s tough to get a full step lower with that long throw. |
...which is the exact reason that I have returned 3 times over the years to a plain string. And then said 'nope' and gone back to the wound. |
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Jamie Mitchell
From:
Nashville, TN
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Posted 8 Jul 2021 11:10 am
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| Bob Hoffnar wrote: |
| I switched to a 22 wound and never looked back. Way more stable. |
Bob, do you drop the G# to F# on any changes? |
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Bob Hoffnar
From:
Austin, Tx
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Posted 9 Jul 2021 6:15 am
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| Jamie Mitchell wrote: |
| Bob Hoffnar wrote: |
| I switched to a 22 wound and never looked back. Way more stable. |
Bob, do you drop the G# to F# on any changes? |
I don’t have any lowers on my 6th string. I started living without a bunch of changes when I switched to PP guitars and didn’t miss them. If you use the G# to F# lower the plain string might work better.
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Bob |
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Jon Light
From:
Saugerties, NY
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Posted 9 Jul 2021 6:24 am
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I do have the G#>>F# lower on all my all-pull guitars with wound 6th strings and it takes the changer to the absolute limit (before the raise finger starts moving). It's why I changed to a .024w from an .022w .... to get the last little bit of change out of it. It's a long throw but it's not ridiculous.
And now that I'm getting back into a PP, I, too, am starting to simplify my thinking and, ultimately, maybe also my all-pull setups. The 6th string lower is probably my most disposable lever change. |
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Jack Stoner
From:
Kansas City, MO
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Posted 9 Jul 2021 7:34 am
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| Jon Light wrote: |
| And now that I'm getting back into a PP, I, too, am starting to simplify my thinking and, ultimately, maybe also my all-pull setups. The 6th string lower is probably my most disposable lever change. |
The 6th string full tone lower and half tone split is my 2nd most used changes. Most used is the E's lower.
I had the 6th string full tone lower on a knee lever (RKL) on the D-10 PP I had. |
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Georg Sørtun
From:
Mandal, Agder, Norway
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Posted 9 Jul 2021 8:53 am
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I use .022W as 6th (for preferred tone) on all my PSGs, and lower 6th a whole note w/1/2 note split on all of them. Had to go an extra round or two to make that lower work flawless on some of them, but no real problems.
Improved tonal stability with a wound 6th comes as a bonus.
I lower 3d string too, and an .0115p syncs nicely with a wound 6th. |
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Tucker Jackson
From:
Portland, Oregon, USA
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Posted 9 Jul 2021 9:49 am
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.022 wound for tuning stability.
And I do lower it a full step, but when switching over from a plain string, had to move the rod on the bellcrank to get more travel. |
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Pete Burak
From:
Portland, OR USA
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Posted 9 Jul 2021 10:07 am
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Tried a wound 6th on S12U but didn't like the volume difference between strings 5 and 6.
I measure cabinet drop on all Steels I try out, by how for the 6th string drops when engaging the A+F position. That is definitely less with a wound 6th.
I am a fan of the 6th string whole tone lower, but don't have that change on my Push Pulls. |
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Greg Gefell
From:
Upstate NY
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Posted 9 Jul 2021 11:23 am
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I really didn't mind the mellower tone of a wound. I can also get the wound string to do the whole step lower but I think for me the biggest issue is the increased stiffness it creates. Much harder to ease into a change when it requires too much muscle. Especially since that change is on my volume pedal leg too. Its kind of like adding string 8 to the C pedal. That extra stiffness just makes me aware that I'm fighting something mechanical and takes me out of the playing zone.
...always a tradeoff
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https://www.facebook.com/ggefell/ |
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Tucker Jackson
From:
Portland, Oregon, USA
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Posted 12 Jul 2021 8:50 am
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| Greg Gefell wrote: |
That extra stiffness just makes me aware that I'm fighting something mechanical and takes me out of the playing zone.
...always a tradeoff |
Have you moved the rod one notch closer to the axle on the bellcrank? You can get an easier pedal with a longer throw that way.
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Jack Stoner
From:
Kansas City, MO
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Posted 12 Jul 2021 11:15 am
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I've got rodding charts for GFI, Sho-Bud, Emmons and Derby. They all show 6th string raise rod in the 3rd hole (Longer/Easier).
It doesn't affect me as I use a .020P, but for those trying a wound, they are probably on the longer/easier hole. |
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Donny Hinson
From:
Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.
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Posted 12 Jul 2021 11:53 am
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| Jon Light wrote: |
| I do have the G#>>F# lower on all my all-pull guitars with wound 6th strings and it takes the changer to the absolute limit (before the raise finger starts moving). It's why I changed to a .024w from an .022w .... to get the last little bit of change out of it. |
Jon, some of that problem can be eliminated by using a lighter return spring. A lot of players think that adjustable springs are just as good as changing the springs for lighter ones, but experience has taught me otherwise. A heavier, slackened (adjustable) spring simply does not respond as well in some changers as a lighter spring!  |
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Jon Light
From:
Saugerties, NY
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Posted 12 Jul 2021 12:42 pm
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| Donny Hinson wrote: |
Jon, some of that problem can be eliminated by using a lighter return spring. A lot of players think that adjustable springs are just as good as changing the springs for lighter ones, but experience has taught me otherwise. A heavier, slackened (adjustable) spring simply does not respond as well in some changers as a lighter spring! |
Interesting and worth pursuing.
Another counter-intuitive thing that I cannot explain but I can confirm from multiple experiences is that sometimes the changer hole closest to the axle that provides maximum leverage, maximum travel, is not the best choice to achieve the max lower before the raise starts moving. |
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Larry Bressington
From:
Nebraska
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Posted 20 Jul 2021 11:08 am
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For max travel you will need the furthest hole away from the axle in a bell crank or a finger, however you will feel it the most, higher resistance. Most all pull guitars will handle a 6th string to a full drop but you might need a taller bellcrank, such as the old M.S.A's which had 2 and 4 hole bell cranks as an example...You can't beat a good old wound.
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A.K.A Chappy. |
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J D Sauser
From:
Wellington, Florida
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Posted 21 Jul 2021 6:09 am
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| Donny Hinson wrote: |
| I use a .024w, not as much for tuning but to get away from the "boingy" sound of a plain string. The timbre also matches up better with the 6th and 10th, and gives me an octave of plain (3,4,5) and an octave of wound (6,8,10) strings. |
I went to a o.o22W decades ago. It's tuning stable. I think it WAS the standard in the early-early day until BE came out with the plain string G#. Some will argue that "that" sound all comes from just that plain string, I would argue that is plain debatable. But HE liked it better, so it will have it's merits.
The p20 is way under-strung and detunes to bar pressure and the pedal throw is too short to stay precise. p22 is "clunky"... I feel it comes to live anywhere over A# or B.
It however takes re-rodding all pull on that string to go from plain to wound or back.
... J-D
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Was it JFK who said: Ask Not What TAB Can Do For You - Rather Ask Yourself "What Would B.B. King Do?"
A Little Mental Health Warning:
Tablature KILLS SKILLS.
The uses of Tablature is addictive and has been linked to reduced musical fertility.
Those who produce Tablature did never use it.
I say it humorously, but I mean it. |
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Greg Gefell
From:
Upstate NY
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Posted 21 Jul 2021 7:10 am
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Definitely thinking about going back to the wound after several gigs with the plain. I've never spent so much time before fussing about with that string. So finicky!
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https://www.facebook.com/ggefell/ |
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