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Topic: Wanda Jackson 1962 “We Couldâ€: Steeler? |
Dave Van Allen
From:
Souderton, PA , US , Earth
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Posted 3 Jul 2021 3:39 pm |
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| Who’s the steeler on “We Could†by Wanda Jackson, from 1962 LP Wonderful Wanda? |
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Greg Cutshaw
From:
Corry, PA, USA
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Posted 3 Jul 2021 6:49 pm
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| No idea but Bobbe Seymour was one of the few steelers using the Leslie sound a lot back then. |
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Mike Holder
From:
Alabama! Home of the great “Don Helms” & his singer “Hank Williams”!
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Posted 3 Jul 2021 8:57 pm
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As was Pete Drake
_________________
I thought Nashville was the roughest, but I know I’ve said the same about them all.
I received my education, drivin through the Nation listenin to Paul!.. ( Franklin that is! ) |
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Pete Finney
From:
Nashville Tn.
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Posted 4 Jul 2021 6:15 am
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Never heard this, very cool.
Here's a link:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=--PoszpZt58
This sounds to me more like amp tremolo set at a fast rate, as opposed to a Leslie speaker. I'm going to venture a guess that it's Walter Haynes, or maybe Jimmy Day, but they're only guesses.
The last part of the intro and turnaround features a phrase that sure sounds like they're lowering the 6th string a whole tone, something I wasn't aware anyone did back then. Anyone else hear that? Sounds like they're raising 6th string with "b" pedal and rocking back-and-forth to the lower, so that the scale tones in the phrase are 4-3-2-3-4-3, all without picking the string again. There's other ways to get those notes of course, but to me the quick legato phrasing sounds like they're lowering the 6th string. Anybody have any thoughts on what else they could be doing to get that sound? |
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Jon Light (deceased)
From:
Saugerties, NY
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Posted 4 Jul 2021 6:32 am
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Pete -- just offering an alternative (that I use a lot). Exact same notes, I think. Moving between the 11th and the 10th frets, strings 10-8-6, rocking A & B pedals (independently) WITH E lower lever while at the 11th fret. On & off the A pedal plus bar movement gives the same range of movement as the 6th string lower + B pedal does.
As I said, I use it a lot so it's not just an exercise in 'well...you could get those notes this way'.
And I agree that it sounds more like a tremolo than a Leslie to me. |
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Pete Finney
From:
Nashville Tn.
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Posted 4 Jul 2021 6:51 am
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Thanks, Jon. My aging memory needed some help there!
As soon as I sat down at my steel and played what you described, with the phrasing from the Wanda Jackson record I realized I'd been doing similar things in that position for years too! Thanks again for pointing that combination out.
Gotta have my second cup of coffee before I post anymore!
The great "Praguefrank" discography site does make it clear that it was a Nashville session produced by Ken Nelson, but says "unknown musicians."
Tremolo/Leslie and all else aside, I really love the playing on this track. Thanks for posting, Dave. Hope all is well up your way; it's been a long time since we've hung out.
Last edited by Pete Finney on 4 Jul 2021 7:06 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Jon Light (deceased)
From:
Saugerties, NY
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Posted 4 Jul 2021 7:04 am
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I knew you knew it Pete : >) I find it a much more satisfying position, timbrally and ergonomically for rocking that sus4 to sus2 thing. I have always had a 6 lower lever but it so often feels sluggish and unsatisfying for anything other than straight chords or slow chord/melody movement (ala Brumley).
ps--I'm four cups in. |
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Skip Edwards
From:
LA,CA
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Posted 4 Jul 2021 1:28 pm
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| Not a Leslie. Trem speed is not right for it to be a Leslie. |
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Bill Ferguson
From:
Milton, FL USA
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Posted 5 Jul 2021 6:00 am
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Correct Skip. And if I remember correctly, you could not adjust the speed on a Leslie.
If I am not sadly mistaken, that is Walter Haynes on steel.
Correct me if I am wrong.
_________________
AUTHORIZED George L's, Goodrich, Telonics and Peavey Dealer: I have 2 steels and several amps. My current rig of choice is 1993 Emmons LeGrande w/ 108 pups (Jack Strayhorn built for me), Goodrich OMNI Volume Pedal, George L's cables, Goodrich Baby Bloomer and Peavey Nashville 112. Can't get much sweeter. |
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Steve Hinson
From:
Hendersonville Tn USA
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Posted 6 Jul 2021 4:19 am
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It sounds like Pete to me.
SH |
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Joe Krumel
From:
Hermitage, Tn.
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Posted 6 Jul 2021 5:11 am steeler
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| I agree with Steve. sounds like Pete. |
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Benjamin Franz
From:
Melbourne, Victoria, Australia
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Posted 6 Jul 2021 9:02 pm
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| That sounds exactly like the tremolo on my 1963 Fender Concert amp. |
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David Mitchell
From:
Tyler, Texas
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Posted 7 Jul 2021 9:03 pm
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| Wanda Jackson was signed to Decca in 1954 for less than 2 years but strangely Decca never released any of her records until 1962 long after she left the label. In the meantime in 1956 she signed with Capitol and that's where most of her hits came from. Capitol studios in Los Angeles, so it is possible that no Nashville players were on it. Could be someone like a young Red Rhodes. |
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Pete Finney
From:
Nashville Tn.
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Posted 8 Jul 2021 8:09 am
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Ken Nelson recorded many, many sessions in Nashville on some of his Capitol artists in the '50s and '60s; Ferlin Husky, Sonny James and lots more, including many Wanda Jackson sessions.
I don't remember Nelson using Red Rhodes on his Hollywood sessions either, and this sounds nothing like any Red Rhodes playing I've ever heard.
I'm gonna guess Mr. Hinson is right (as he usually is!) about it being Pete Drake. I know that Lloyd Green played on some of her Nashville sessions a bit later. |
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David Mitchell
From:
Tyler, Texas
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Posted 8 Jul 2021 8:58 am
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| Pete Finney wrote: |
Ken Nelson recorded many, many sessions in Nashville on some of his Capitol artists in the '50s and '60s; Ferlin Husky, Sonny James and lots more, including many Wanda Jackson sessions.
I don't remember Nelson using Red Rhodes on his Hollywood sessions either, and this sounds nothing like any Red Rhodes playing I've ever heard.
I'm gonna guess Mr. Hinson is right (as he usually is!) about it being Pete Drake. I know that Lloyd Green played on some of her Nashville sessions a bit later. |
That's true Pete. Sometimes RCA would go over to Bradley's Barn to record if their studio was down and vice versa. Many Capitol sessions were recorded in Nashville I'm just saying not all her records used Nashville players. To me it doesn't sound like Pete Drake either but who knows? 1962 was a long, long time ago and then there was guys that played steel back then that were out of the country music business by 1965.
A guy I use to gig with played lead guitar and recorded with Wanda but he's dead now too. We just have to enjoy what it is today. My friend, Tommy Allsup that I did sessions with also produced Hank Thompson on Capitol in Nashville and he played for Buddy Holly and nothing he has recorded after Buddy Holly sounds like a Buddy Holly record. It's anybody's guess today.
Last edited by David Mitchell on 8 Jul 2021 9:00 am; edited 4 times in total |
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Mike Holder
From:
Alabama! Home of the great “Don Helms” & his singer “Hank Williams”!
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Posted 8 Jul 2021 8:58 am
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There are recorded instrumentals by Pete Drake using the vibrato on his steel and I am not aware of any other steel guitarists using it or making it a prominent sound, it could be a key reason Paul Franklin had the effect added to the new Benado units currently in production. Pete Drake was such a ground breaking musician.
_________________
I thought Nashville was the roughest, but I know I’ve said the same about them all.
I received my education, drivin through the Nation listenin to Paul!.. ( Franklin that is! ) |
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David Mitchell
From:
Tyler, Texas
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Posted 8 Jul 2021 9:29 am
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| Mike Holder wrote: |
| There are recorded instrumentals by Pete Drake using the vibrato on his steel and I am not aware of any other steel guitarists using it or making it a prominent sound, it could be a key reason Paul Franklin had the effect added to the new Benado units currently in production. Pete Drake was such a ground breaking musician. |
I think Pete was a musical genius and the most underated pedal steel player/producer in the world considering his vast achievements in every aspect.
1962 was the year of tremolo and yes Pete would have been the first to use it without hesitation but many, many other people were using it. There was a time and I was already playing in 1962 that most would not buy an amp without built in tremolo. My first was an old National tube amp with tremolo. It had tremolo but no reverb. That's how popular it was back then.
For those that don't know there is a difference between tremolo and vibrato and many times the wrong word is used in the description. Vibrato fluctuates the pitch and tremolo fluctuates the volume. Two entirely different effects. |
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Mike Holder
From:
Alabama! Home of the great “Don Helms” & his singer “Hank Williams”!
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Posted 8 Jul 2021 9:43 am
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Every Fender amp and footswitch I have marks the channel as”Vibrato”…it seemed appropriate to me.
_________________
I thought Nashville was the roughest, but I know I’ve said the same about them all.
I received my education, drivin through the Nation listenin to Paul!.. ( Franklin that is! ) |
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David Mitchell
From:
Tyler, Texas
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Posted 8 Jul 2021 10:19 am
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| Mike Holder wrote: |
| Every Fender amp and footswitch I have marks the channel as”Vibrato”…it seemed appropriate to me. |
Mike, Leo Fender was a genius but he labeled everything backwards from everyone else. This video explains the difference.
https://youtu.be/_b8WfoAHILA |
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Mike Holder
From:
Alabama! Home of the great “Don Helms” & his singer “Hank Williams”!
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Posted 8 Jul 2021 10:25 am
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Thanks
_________________
I thought Nashville was the roughest, but I know I’ve said the same about them all.
I received my education, drivin through the Nation listenin to Paul!.. ( Franklin that is! )
Last edited by Mike Holder on 8 Jul 2021 11:50 am; edited 1 time in total |
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David Mitchell
From:
Tyler, Texas
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Posted 8 Jul 2021 10:29 am
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| Vibrato modulates the pitch, Tremolo modulates the volume. |
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Donny Hinson
From:
Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.
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Posted 8 Jul 2021 5:00 pm
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Some of the early tremolo circuits did, in fact, affect the pitch or frequency of the note, so that may be the reason that the tremolo and vibrato designations are interchanged by amp manufacturers.
Pete did use the vibrato early on, but so did Curly on an instrumental ("Wolverton Mountain"). Hal Rugg also used it prominently on this cut:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HqFSAtkGse8
However, I think the song in question ("We Could") is definitely Drake. I listened to the whole album and only two other songs had noticeable steel guitar, and those sounded like Pete too. |
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Fred Jack
From:
Bastrop, Texas 78602
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Posted 10 Jul 2021 5:08 pm Steel Players
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| Ralph Mooney was a favorite of Ken Nelson also. Moon did many many sessions with Ken. One session that he was called for was for Wanda. Moon showed up , at Capital, with his homemade pedal steel. Coat hanger pulls and all. When Wanda saw that she went screaming to Ken that she was not going to record with that thing. Ken consoled and assured her that if she didn't like the results they would rerecord for her. They did and she liked it. |
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