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Topic: how many steel piayers really use "drop 2" |
Stuart Legg
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Posted 28 Jun 2021 12:00 pm |
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| I would suspicion not very many, odd since it seems so highly regarded by icons of pedal steel! |
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Colin Swinney
From:
Wisconsin, USA
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Posted 28 Jun 2021 12:21 pm
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| The icons are so highly regarded because they’re so much more advanced than everyone else. I would guess the majority of six string guitar players don’t know them either, but most still highly regard the jazz greats. |
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scott murray
From:
Asheville, NC
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Posted 28 Jun 2021 12:48 pm
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I think a lot of us use them whether we realize it or not. it really just depends on which grip is being employed
_________________
1965 Emmons S-10, 3x5 • Emmons LLIII D-10, 10x12 • JCH D-10, 10x12 • Beard MA-8 • Oahu Tonemaster |
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Guy Cundell
From:
More idle ramblings from South Australia
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Tom Campbell
From:
Houston, Texas, USA
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Posted 28 Jun 2021 4:19 pm
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What is meant by "drop 2"?
Sorry, not familiar with the term. |
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Guy Cundell
From:
More idle ramblings from South Australia
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Posted 28 Jun 2021 4:34 pm
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| Tom Campbell wrote: |
What is meant by "drop 2"?
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Tom, the Wikipedia article in my post above explains it. |
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Cappone dAngelo
From:
Vancouver, BC, Canada
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Posted 28 Jun 2021 9:22 pm
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| Tom Campbell wrote: |
What is meant by "drop 2"?
Sorry, not familiar with the term. |
If I understand the terminology correctly, 'drop 2' means dropping the 2nd highest note of a chord (assuming the notes are all in the same octave, but in any inversion) by an octave. So instead of stacked thirds C-E-G, the E is dropped an octave so it's a m6th below the C, resulting in E-C-G. 'Drop 2' for a C7 in first inversion (E-G-Bb-C) would mean dropping the Bb an octave, and 'drop 2 and 4' would mean dropping the Bb and the E by an octave. |
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Bengt Erlandsen
From:
Brekstad, NORWAY
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Posted 28 Jun 2021 11:34 pm
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I would say all C6/unversal players use "drop 2" voicings (If they use a 4 voiced something) either they are aware of it beeing a "drop 2" or not because of the way the C6 tuning is laid out.
Majority of ExtE9 players would use "drop 2" voicings in their playing as it probably would be one of the reasons why they felt need for the 2 extra low strings. Drop 2 voicings are no problem on an S12 ExtE9. Spread triads are a breeze too, in all inversions.
Those that know the 10 string E9 well might use "drop2" voicings, altho I think the 10 string E9 is more suited to 3 note voicings(or just 2 note intervals) altho I personally use 4 note voicings there quite a lot as well.
Those that are familiar w piano or regular 6 string guitar will probably look for a way to play a "drop 2" no matter what tuning they use for playing steel-guitar.
I however prefer not to think about "drop 2" when playing as I usually view the most common "drop 2" R 5 7 3 as a spread triad w a 7th in there or a Root w a 2nd inversion triad superimposed or as a 10th interval w a 3rd interval in between. It all depends where I hear the melody.
If we both have a common understanding of "drop 2" I might use the term to explain what is going on within certain chords/voicings movements.
Exploring the 6 inversions of a closed/open voiced triad while also playing either the 6th, b7th or natural 7th can be equally rewarding as to learning all drop 2 voicings in all keys.
For a static sustaining chord or an arpeggiated one, I think a "drop 2" voicing is excellent.
If one wants nice smooth voices from one chord to another, simplifying to a 3 note voicing is a lot more flexible and might sound better than trying to do the same with 4 voices.
How does this chord/voicing change into the next chord is the question one should find the answer to or actually several answers to.
B.Erlandsen
Zumsteel S12extE9 7+7 |
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Guy Cundell
From:
More idle ramblings from South Australia
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Posted 29 Jun 2021 2:51 am
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Answer to the quiz below. B9 and E7 are not Dropped 2 voicings. All the rest are. I guess most people use them sometimes.
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Tom Campbell
From:
Houston, Texas, USA
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Posted 29 Jun 2021 5:49 am
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Thanks for the explanation!
I think the jazz guitarist "Wes Montgomery" used octaves a great deal...it was his signature/style of playing. |
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Bengt Erlandsen
From:
Brekstad, NORWAY
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Posted 29 Jun 2021 6:41 am
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Hmmmm. When I hear the word Drop 2 I 99,9% of the time will envision a 4 voiced chord of some type.
If we are talking about spread triads here, then I would say any E9 player that have practised a little muscle memory into their picking fingers will be likely to use those.
B.Erlandsen
Zumsteel S12extE9 7+7 |
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Steve Knight
From:
NC
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Posted 29 Jun 2021 7:20 am
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| I use drop 2 more on C6 than E9. I don't know if that's becuase the range is wider on C6; or, if I'm just thinking more in terms of jazz voicings on C6. I play jazz 6-string guitar and use drop 2 all the time. One steel, I usually think of the individual notes of the chord, rather than drop 2, drop 3, etc. I'm usually looking to the nearest voicing of whatever chord I'm going to next, adding color to the chord if it's a swing/jazz tune. I suppose I'm thinking in terms of voice leading rather than grips (?) |
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James Collett
From:
San Dimas, CA
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Posted 29 Jun 2021 11:47 am
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I use the grips 3-5-8 and 4-6-10 quite a bit which are drop 2 when played both open and A+B pedals down. Using either of those grips while rocking onto A+B on one of the lower frets is a classic Pete Drake-style move hear a lot of players use.
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James Collett |
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Donny Hinson
From:
Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.
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Posted 30 Jun 2021 6:07 am Drop 2 = just another inversion?
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| Okay, so what I'm hearing is we take the 2nd highest note of a chord and make it the lowest note. What I would like to know is why this is more significant/popular/useful than dropping any other note, and making it the lowest note? |
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Fred Treece
From:
California, USA
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Posted 30 Jun 2021 8:45 am Re: Drop 2 = just another inversion?
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| Donny Hinson wrote: |
| Okay, so what I'm hearing is we take the 2nd highest note of a chord and make it the lowest note. What I would like to know is why this is more significant/popular/useful than dropping any other note, and making it the lowest note? |
Since Drop 2 applies to any inversion of any chord, or any chord extension, any note of the chord can be used as the lowest note. It really comes down to a matter of what sounds good to you in context. On steel, it also comes down to what is available to you, given your copedent. Some chord voicings are meant to be home or target chords, some are meant to be used like passing tones, like when you want to add counterpoint in the lower register if there is a long melody note on top.
I suspect most advanced steel players do this kind of thing, knowingly or otherwise.
Steve Knight’s post also addresses some of your concern. |
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b0b
From:
Cloverdale, CA, USA
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Posted 30 Jun 2021 9:11 am
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I never heard the term before. I thought he meant lowering the second string. 
Some bass parts call for playing the 3rd instead of the root. Same thing?
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-𝕓𝕆𝕓- (admin) - Robert P. Lee - Recordings - Breathe - D6th - Video |
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Steve Knight
From:
NC
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Posted 30 Jun 2021 9:15 am Re: Drop 2 = just another inversion?
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| Donny Hinson wrote: |
| What I would like to know is why this is more significant/popular/useful than dropping any other note, and making it the lowest note? |
I don't know that drop 2 is better than dropping any other note down an octave. There are drop 3 voicings where you drop the 3rd note down. When I'm comping on 6-string guitar in a jazz setting, I use drop 3 most of the time.
Closed, spread, drop 2, drop 3, etc are all legit choices. They're all worth experimenting with and seeing which ones you like. The worst that's happened to me is I've learned more about the fretboard and theory. Not all carry over to my playing. I don't know if that's a reflection on the voicing or the player  |
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Steve Knight
From:
NC
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Posted 30 Jun 2021 9:27 am
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| b0b wrote: |
I never heard the term before. I thought he meant lowering the second string.
Some bass parts call for playing the 3rd instead of the root. Same thing? |
Bob, if you look at a G7 chord, closed (or "stacked") voicing is GBDF. That is also called root voicing. You can invert it as BDFG (1st inversion), DFGB (2nd inv), FGBD (3rd inv.)
Drop 2 moves the 2nd highest note of those close voicings down an octave. So, the rooot-3rd inversions above in drop 2 become DGBF, FBDG, GDFB, BFGD. Drop 3 moves the 3rd highest note of close voicing down an octave. The root-3rd inversions become BGDF, DBFG, FDGB, GFBD.
To answer your question, there are lots of options for putting the 3rd in the bass. Normally, the bass player is playing the 3rd of the chord and the guitar, steel, piano, whatever can play any type of voicing (or part of any voicing) over the top of that bass 3rd note. |
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Fred Treece
From:
California, USA
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Posted 30 Jun 2021 9:43 am
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| b0b wrote: |
| Some bass parts call for playing the 3rd instead of the root. Same thing? |
It can be the same thing, but it’s more about a specific arrangement of all the chord tones of a specific inversion..
Examples of Drop 2:
1-3-5-7 = 5-1-3-7
3-5-7-1 = 7-3-5-1
5-7-1-3 = 1-5-7-3
7-1-3-5 = 3-7-1-5 |
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Donny Hinson
From:
Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.
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Posted 30 Jun 2021 9:49 am
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| From what I've read on one of the referenced links, straight guitarists often do the drop just to make the fingering easier. Since no steel setup offers all the inversion variations that straight guitar players have, I get the feeling that we do it more on expanded voicings for the same reason, but not as often on block chords. On most of the stuff I play, I don't think I notice whether or not I'm playing the the same note as the bass guitar. |
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b0b
From:
Cloverdale, CA, USA
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Posted 30 Jun 2021 10:57 am
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It looks like you always end up with a wide interval on top. I think it would be more popular with guitarists than keyboard or steel players. The top 2 strings of guitar are tuned to a 4th.
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-𝕓𝕆𝕓- (admin) - Robert P. Lee - Recordings - Breathe - D6th - Video |
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Dave Mudgett
From:
Central Pennsylvania and Gallatin, Tennessee
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Posted 30 Jun 2021 12:27 pm
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So-called drop 2 voicings are just one type of wide voicing. I don't think the name matters at all, nor do I think drop 2 voicings are particularly special.
Guitar and mandolin players tend to use wide voicings more because the tuning intervals are fairly wide and they're easier to finger, and also have a particular sound that is characteristic of the instruments. It is often desirable to have close voicings, and it takes a while to get the stretches to do closely-voiced complex chords comfortably. Piano gives the ultimate freedom in choosing voicings, IMO.
I think close voicings are frequently easier on steel than guitar because the tuning intervals are closer. But wide voicings are also doable on steel and I use them when they sound right to me. I never think about it like, "OK, I'm gonna do a drop 2 voicing" consciously - the issue is what sounds good in the situation. To me, the ear is the best determinant of that. |
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Fred Treece
From:
California, USA
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Posted 30 Jun 2021 2:52 pm
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| b0b wrote: |
| It looks like you always end up with a wide interval on top. I think it would be more popular with guitarists than keyboard or steel players. The top 2 strings of guitar are tuned to a 4th. |
Yes, because the note that would normally fall between them has been kicked out of the 3rd floor and moved into the basement.
Sometimes there is a wide interval on the bottom too. An example of a drop-2 grip on E9 would be the E7 voicing on strings 9-6-5-4 (intervals 7-3-5-1, drop 2 of 3-5-7-1), with a b5 between the two lower voices. And a wide grip.
Scuse me for going into the weeds...As a few of us have said, it needn’t be a conscious decision to be jamming along and think “hey this is a great spot for a drop 2 chord!†But, it is nice to know that’s what it is if you ever decided to dig in and expand on the concept. |
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b0b
From:
Cloverdale, CA, USA
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Posted 30 Jun 2021 3:24 pm
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I wonder why, in nearly 50 years of playing with semi-pro musicians, I've never encountered this terminology. It must be part of that "language of music" that hardly anyone actually uses. 
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-𝕓𝕆𝕓- (admin) - Robert P. Lee - Recordings - Breathe - D6th - Video |
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Fred Treece
From:
California, USA
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Posted 30 Jun 2021 3:35 pm
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| Just trying to help. |
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