Both, depending on the application. Don't leave a useable weapon out of your arsenal.
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Mikey D...
Jim Sliff
From: Lawndale California, USA
Posted 24 Jul 2006 4:31 am
Kind of both at the same time.
Jim Cohen
From: Philadelphia, PA
Posted 24 Jul 2006 5:00 am
And there you have it, folks. The answer is 'Yes'!
Gene Jones
From: Oklahoma City, OK USA, (deceased)
Posted 24 Jul 2006 5:26 am
.....and I agree with Jim!
Bobby Lee
From: Cloverdale, California, USA
Posted 24 Jul 2006 5:41 am
I never thought of applying more pressure to make vibrato. Seems like a hard technique to master. Does anyone do this? I tried it and couldn't figure out which muscles to use - fingers, wrist or arm. It seems really awkward.
The rolling motion is very quiet with no string noise to speak of. It's very controlled for a subtle, expressive vibrato.
Sliding, you can get a wider vibrato like what bottleneck players have. You get more string noise which adds a little "grit" to blues.
I am in among the general consensus.. I roll most often, but use a faster wiggly slide vibrato on rock/blues stuff, or when ever I wish to become an annoyance... bob
Jay Ganz
From: Out Behind The Barn
Posted 24 Jul 2006 5:54 am
Sort of a combination of the two maybe(?)
I don't know.....you tell me
Dave Mudgett
From: Central Pennsylvania and Gallatin, Tennessee
Posted 24 Jul 2006 7:08 am
Coming from a guitar and slide guitar background, I started out strictly sliding, but now do both or mix them, depending on the application. Of course, the sliding approach tends to make more noise, especially on the wound strings. There is often some harmonic component in that noise, and sometimes I want that. I don't think blues would sound right to me without some of that sliding noise and whining harmonics.
I agree that a violin-style pressure vibrato is difficult, but I like it on guitar, especially for real fast vibrato. So I started working on it for real slow, subtle vibrato - it really is difficult. I have to start out with heavy bar pressure to avoid string rattling, especially on my universals. To me, it sounds fairly similar to a rolling vibrato, and is very quiet on the wound strings - provided the pressure kept up. I have to keep a my fingers and wrist real stiff and apply pressure from my arm to make it work, especially keeping the pressure up on the larger wound strings if they're involved. I don't think it's worth the effort unless I get get the vibrato speed up, but only time will tell if I can do that or not.
Twayn Williams
From: Portland, OR
Posted 24 Jul 2006 11:08 am
Roll on pedal, slide on lap. It's really more a function of the bar I'm using. The light SP2 I use on lap makes it easy to give fast, wide sliding vibratos, whereas the pedal steel bar's shape and weight lends itself more easily to a rolling motion. At least for me
Kelly Hydorn
From: Spokane
Posted 24 Jul 2006 6:31 pm
If you want it purdy you gotta roll it, otherwise whatever.
basilh
From: United Kingdom
Posted 25 Jul 2006 8:05 am
I would have thought that "Rolling" the Bar instead of sliding it (to create vibrato) would not have sufficient pressure on the strings to prevent rattle, or am I missing some subtleties in the terminology ?
Basil
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Quote:
Steel players do it without fretting
Jim Cohen
From: Philadelphia, PA
Posted 25 Jul 2006 8:46 am
Baz, listen to any Herby Wallace ballad. He does a beautiful rolling vibrato and you'll never hear string buzz. Perhaps one adds a little more bar pressure at the same time but, if so, it's probably subconscious.
Bobby Lee
From: Cloverdale, California, USA
Posted 25 Jul 2006 8:54 am
I roll between my two fingers, maintaining pressure. There's no rattle.
basilh
From: United Kingdom
Posted 25 Jul 2006 1:51 pm
How can you have pressure on the bar and have it free rolling at the same time ?
In the Video above all I can see is Jay Ganz SLIDING the bar whilst GRIPPING it (Either with the thumb and first finger or trapped between first and second. The bar does NOT rotate, or is this what you term "Rolling" the bar.?
I thought that Rolling the bar was to allow it to ROTATE whilst guiding it, if pressure is applied surely the rotation ceases ?
Tucker Jackson
From: Portland, Oregon, USA
Posted 25 Jul 2006 2:50 pm
I saw Jeff Newman demonstrate bar roll technique in a video. He did a very exaggerated version for demonstration purposes:
The nose of the bar is held lightly between the index and middle fingers. The other fingers (and thumb) are completely lifted up off the strings. The palm of the hand should not touch the bar; just the two fingers. While gently pressing down on those two fingers, roll the bar. Sort of a combination of slightly wiggling the fingers while also rotating the entire hand. The bar is rolled, not slid.
Meanwhile, the butt of the bar is sort of flopping around, a little uncontrolled (since the thumb and palm are not touching it, and the middle finger is more on top of the bar than beside it). But the nose of the bar is lightly pressed down and well-controlled. The other fingers -- the ones hanging free at this point -- are moving up and down, as if they were bouncing off of the strings with each roll.
As I said before, Newman pulled all his fingers off the bar for demonstration purposes. You can lay down the fingers behind the bar and use your thumb once you get the hang of doing most of the rolling with 2 finger tips.
[This message was edited by Tucker Jackson on 25 July 2006 at 03:52 PM.]
basilh
From: United Kingdom
Posted 26 Jul 2006 1:27 am
55 Years playing and I never knew or heard about this technique before !!
Is it commonly in use amongst the 'Pro Players' ?
Out in the sticks for far too long, I simply must get to one of the stateside conventions, and learn more !!
Baz
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Quote:
Steel players do it without fretting
[This message was edited by basilh on 26 July 2006 at 02:28 AM.]
Steven Welborn
From: Ojai,CA USA
Posted 26 Jul 2006 9:52 am
I love Herbys' slow rolling vibrato. R. Beavers comes to mind too for great vibrato. I see him lft his fingers up often behind the bar. I assumed he was trying to bring in harmonics from the other side, or maybe it was just for vibrato...not sure. Randy...you there?
Steven Welborn
From: Ojai,CA USA
Posted 26 Jul 2006 10:00 am
Jay, you sure get a crispy clear sound out of your rig. Is that a wrap around? I can see thats an old Fender but cant make out which one.
Alan Brookes
From: Brummy living in Southern California
Posted 26 Jul 2006 6:46 pm
I've noticed that Hawaiian players tend to do both at the same time. Sometimes they'll slide slowly up a whole octave, while rolling the bar all the way up.
Recently I was at an Everly Brothers concert in Birmingham, England, and their steel guitarist seemed to be pushing the steel into the string and increasing its tension.
