Pickin w/out picks?

Matt Steindl · From: New Orleans, LA, USA

I expect to get flamed on this one, but I gotta know if any of you guys out there play w/out picks?

I started my venture into the wonderfull world of stringed instruments(piano excepted) by taking classical guitar lessons as a child. I had the whole thumb, index, middle, ring finger thing drilled into my head(and hands) and I figured it out pretty quickly. This has always been an asset for me, as I quickly adapted to steel string acousic, then electric, then banjo(w/out picks).

I recently got my 1st PSG, and now I am supposed to put little metal things on my fingers to play? What an alien concept!! I play w/ all 4 fingers w/ no picks, and I am pretty satisfied w/ my tone and right hand technique. As I posted in early Jan. I am trying to stay away from formal lessons and if I delelop bad habits, so be it, they will be part of my style(I got flamed for that one too!).

I dont aspire to sound like any of the Nashville greats, so is it a sin for me to not use picks? Are there any other pickless heretics out there?

Flame away my good freinds!!!!!!!!

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Mattman in "The Big Sleazy"-:
S-10 Dekley, Suitcase Fender Rhodes, B-bender Les Paul

Jim Phelps · From: Mexico City, Mexico

Actually Matt, in my experience it's pretty common for beginners to want to play steel without the metal picks, as picks feel totally awkward and cumbersome when you're not accustomed to them. However, once used to them, you can play much more precisely with the picks. I think it's kinda like wearing shoes, if you never wore them they'd feel awful but once you're used to them... anyway you'd be better to get used to the picks, but it is your choice.

Jim Phelps · From: Mexico City, Mexico

P.S. I also play with just my fingers on acoustic 6-string, I still use the picks on steel.

Michael Dene · From: Gippsland,Victoria, Australia

Matt,
ok....Ill give 'em another target!!!
I've been picking nylon and steel guitar as well as banjo for over 50 years,
and apart from a 3 year period in the early 60's when I fell for the fingerpick propaganda and used picks (primarily 'cause I was playing bluegrass banjo),I have otherwise played without them, including continuing the banjo. I am lucky, I guess, to have strong fingernails which give me a good clean attack on the strings.
For that 3 year period I was using picks on some instruments and not on others, and had no trouble adjusting from one to the other. However I prefer to play without 'em.
Now I'm only a new hand at this PSG game (and what fun I'm having!), but I've elected to go without picks and so far I haven't found any problems with the right hand. Lotsa problems and learning to be done with bars, pedals, levers and concepts that are all new to me, but the right hand, with 50+ years of classical / flamenco / ragtime / blues / etc, is coping just fine!!
Mind you I'm not saying it's better. I'm just saying it works for me. Like my daddy said...if it feels good..do it. Although he wasn't talking about music.

now I'll duck for cover..
Michael

Buck Dilly · From: Branchville, NJ, USA * R.I.P.

I've used fingers in the studio. The tone is truly wonderful. But I rely on picks for volumn and accuracy.

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Steels and Guitars. Emmons PP, Nationals, Dan-O's, ES 340, Tube Amps only! "Blue Sparks From Hell" and "Kings in Disguise".

Peter · Posted 22 Mar 2002 10:03 pm

It all depends on what you want to hear. I suggest trying to play a certain phrase with your fingers only, then the same with a flatpick, just to judge the effect.

CrowBear Schmitt · From: Ariege, - PairO'knees, - France

i played on my steel like i do on guitbox, no picks.
But as i moved onward i found that a thumb pick is vital.
i'm still tryin' to get used to them finger picks tho'...
i tend to agree w: Jim P. i found picks awkward at first.
Well thanx to dis'Fo'rum i know that i can barefoot it or put on my suede shoes.
Steel my choice...

[This message was edited by CrowBear Schmitt on 22 March 2002 at 11:26 PM.]

Bob Hayes · From: Church Hill,Tenn,USA

Different Strokes, for different folks....or whatever works. There is now law that requires steel pickers to use picks. Maybe the tone ,or attack, or whatever maybe better for one than the other..Who's to judge.(I can't believe that I'm saying this as a card carrying conservative). I've seen some 6 or 8 string "Hawien(?)" steel player playing with a regular guitar pick.
Just MHO!!
Grouchyvet

Michael Holland · From: Nashville, Tennessee, USA

Most beginners feel the same way, Matt. I know I did. But fortunately there were those around me to say "You'll get used to them just as you'll get used to the pedals and levers and the technique". They were right.

Matt Steindl · From: New Orleans, LA, USA

Nah, I am actually a clarinet, trombone, tuba player!!!

Nothing wrong w/ the "Nashville Greats", but I would rather defy convention if possible!!

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Mattman in "The Big Sleazy"-:
S-10 Dekley, Suitcase Fender Rhodes, B-bender Les Paul

Ricky Davis · From: Bertram, Texas USA

If the picks are put on right; you are in fact still picking with your finger tips; but just happens to be a metal piece between your finger and string.
Many times players don't feel comfortable with metal picks on, simply because they are putting them on their fingers in a way to try and pick with the metal extensions and not with their fingertips. I'm a believer in the extensions of the metal finger picks are that length and curved slightly; because it is to mimic the very end part of your finger tip. So if they are on correctly....you are still playing with your finger tip; but now there is a piece of metal there for volume and texture that gives the pedal steel it's similarity to the original sound and reason that drew you to the instrument in the first place.
Sure one can be different from our predicessors that made the instrument and gave it it's history in sound.....but I wouldn't do it as I feel I would not be carrying along the tremendous tradition that my mentors and folks I idleize put down before me.
Ricky

Jerry Hayes · From: Virginia Beach, Va.

Hey Matt,
Use whatever you like! You're the person you've got to please. There have been some steel players who've played without picks and got along just fine. Have you ever heard of one of the older players named Dick Stubbs? Dick played pickless and had a good career. There's a guy who plays in Steel Gathering in England who doesn't use fingerpicks and does quite well I've heard. A few weeks ago on the Grand Ol Opry there was a Texas band who's steelman played pickless, and last but not least in the Eagles one of the guitar players (Don Felder) played some pedal steel parts and used no picks. With all that said, I personally use them as I started out on Banjo, dobro, and some bluegrass instruments using thumb and fingerpicks and then went into electric guitar which I had a very enjoyable career in the LA area for 23 year playing with picks. I sometimes liked the tone of bare fingers better but I thought a person could play faster with the fingerpicks until I heard Brent Mason and Mark Knopfler. I sometimes take them off on steel when I attempt to play a Travis style fingerpicking thing as it's easier to block the lead notes like that.

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Livin' in the Past and the Future with a 12 string Mooney tuning.

Frank Parish · From: Nashville,Tn. USA

As usual Ricky was right on about the picks. It may be easier for some to play without picks butI haven't heard anyone play without picks that I thought had really good tone. Playing without picks is fine for an acoustic insrument like the flat-top or nylon string guitar but I think it changes dramatically when you're talking about the steel guitar pedals or no pedals. I know a guy that's a great thumb style electic 6 string player. He uses those glue on plastic fingernails. There's something very thin and airy sounding about his tone to me. I think the plastic picks gives it a plastic tone. Everything about the steel guitars tone is involved with metal..the changer, keys, roller nut, fingers, (BCT in some cases) and the strings. To me using anything but metal picks would take away from the tone.

Ron Shepard · From: Easthampton, MA, USA

I have often experimented playing without picks, I just can't get used to it. While we are on the subject of picks, has anyone ever
used plastic picks on their fingers? We use them on our thumbs, so I wonder how they would be on the fingers.

Jimmie Misenheimer · From: Bloomington, Indiana - U. S. A.

Matt - Do whatever you want to do man! Some guys use an open right hand, some make a fist. Not everone "bars" alike. There are a few ways of doing things, and as someone once said, "The best way of doing something is the way that you can get the best job done". You will notice that I did not say "the easiest way" of doing something, and I did say getting the BEST job done. You have only to satisfiy yourself.

Jimmie

Ron Randall · From: Dallas, Texas, USA

Plastic on the finger picks?
Listen to Bob Brozman play slide blues, Hawaiian, bluegrass, old guitar jazz.

As I understand his technique, the plastic finger picks are for volume on the acoustic Nationals.

Elderly Instruments sells them.

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Fender Stringmaster T-8
PV N400
Dobro squareneck
Dobro roundneck
Lots of Taylors

Matt Steindl · From: New Orleans, LA, USA

Thanks guys! Here is the compromise between my stuborn nature and many of your pleadings to not defy convention/PSG histrory. I am going to try using a thumb pick, and if I can do it w/out F-ing up my technique, I will consider putting them on my other fingers.

Thanks again for the advice!! We are so lucky to have this forum!!!!!!

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Mattman in "The Big Sleazy"-:
S-10 Dekley, Suitcase Fender Rhodes, B-bender Les Paul

Michael Brebes · From: Northridge CA

One thing that makes a difference is whether you are using "classical guitar" nails or just fingers. I also come from a classical guitar background and play most of the time without picks. If you are using nails, then I would say that your tone would be similar to using plastic picks. The metal finger picks give a bit more bite. I have found that the only fingerpicks I can really get used to are the ones made by ProPik that have the fingerpad cutout in them. It leaves the pad of your finger open but has the metal that rests right under your nail. They are definitely the most comfortable and the closest to a "classical guitar" feel. I also use a Herco thumbpick, which is shaped like a regular guitar pick with a wrap over the top for your thumb. Very similar feel to a regular guitar pick. To me, most thumbpicks are too stiff and have to be cut down because they extend down too far. I would say that pedal steel players, in general, are not aware of the speed and precision available with properly trimmed and shaped "classical guitar" nails. The one major drawback with them is that if you break a nail, your playing is out the windown until it grows back.

Heiko Aehle · From: Bretleben GERMANY

In Germany Frank Baum is playing his steel since many years without picks. He got for some weeks the award "Best instrumental country musician" for Germany from the ICMGA.
So you can see, you have a bright way to go.
Winking

BobG · From: Holmdel, NJ

I've always played without picks. I simply can't seem to get used to them. I can't remember the reason why I began to learn that way but I believe it's because I'm lefty and couldn't find a lefthanded thumb pick.
My advise based on my own experience is for you to learn how to use picks. The two main reasons are 1) Sustain..(much more with picks) 2) If you break a nail your "screwed". If your forced to pick with the meat of your fingers because the nail is too short I promise you will be "drawing blood" by the fourth set and believe me it hurts like hell.
Do yourself a favor and take Michael and Rickys' advise. I wish I had it when I was starting out.

!

[This message was edited by BobG on 25 March 2002 at 10:59 AM.]

Mike Shefrin · Posted 7 Jul 2006 10:57 pm

I use picks and also play without them. Both ways are good and different. No different than being able to play a six string guitar using different right hand techniques like in classical or flamenco guitar where you use the nails and fingertips or say when you play a guitar using a flat pick or fingerpicks. Wes Montgomery played using only his thumb and played and sounded great. There are no rules as far as I'm concerned as long as you are able to produce good sounding music.

Bill Hatcher · From: Atlanta Ga. USA

Alaska pics.

A. J. Schobert · From: Cincinnati, Ohio,

Matt normally I would tell one to where the picks, and seek a teacher out, they can help you to show you how to bend the picks in helping you play. Then again you said you don't care if you develop bad habbits? I personnaly really try to mind my playing as I slowly get better, but if you don't care then I would say your on the right track.

Tracy Sheehan · From: Fort Worth, Texas, USA

I use picks if the rhythm section is tight.If not i only use a thumb pick.But i don't even use a thumb pick when i am playing fiddle.

Jim Sliff · From: Lawndale California, USA

" dont aspire to sound like any of the Nashville greats....

Have you considered the bassoon?"

Comments like that and the ones that say "you can't have good tone" etc etc are from folks living in a box, where the instrument is meant for one thing and one style only. You expected flames and go them - but if people actually took time to read your post and thought about the fact that you're not trying to sound like another clone they wouldn't make such narrow-minded comments.

You've clearly stated you want to do something different - so those things should be ignored as irrelevant and off topic.

Do what YOU want to do. If you feel comfortable without picks, like the tone, and can play what YOU want to play don't let anyone tell you differently.

Like you said, you don't want to sound like the Nashville greats and would rather blaze your own trail. So do it your way - and I say good for you!!!.

FWIW I normally use picks, from years of dobro - but I also play without quite often, especially on slower things. I like the softer attack and totally different, almost "compressed" tone. And it keeps the instrument from sounding like a zillion other guys playing country steel with little variation in attack or sound.

[This message was edited by Jim Sliff on 08 July 2006 at 06:02 AM.]

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