Instrument/musician with the most changes/raises/lowers?

Baron Collins-Hill · From: Portland, OR

I've been looking over all the various tunings, copedents, and players I can find, and I'm curious what is the machine with the most individual changes that you have seen?

From what i've seen, it looks like Excel has the most versatile changer at 7 raise and 5 lower, and wonder if anyone has come close to maxing that out?

Carl Dixon's copedent on his customized Excel, copied from b0b's site below, seems to be the busiest I've seen. I don't know how Mr. Dixon's customized switch-over volume pedal mechanism wizardry works, but it seems like has has up to 61 individual changes going on:

Surely you can't mechanically manage to fully fill a 7 raise 5 lower changer (nor would you want to musically), but that's 350 changes on a S10, 420 on an S12, and 490 on an S14, the largest that Excel makes so far as I know. Nobody has that many knees and feet.

Even on a 9 x 9 S12, about the largest I've seen, wouldn't that add up to a theoretical maximum of 212 changes?

At what point do you run out of space under the hood?

At what point to you run out of strength to push a pedal loaded with all those changes?

Thanks for humoring me in my theoretical daydream...
Baron
_________________
Excel Superb U14
Quilter TT15

Free Online Mandolin & Fiddle Tune Lessons
http://www.mandolessons.com

Jon Light · From: Saugerties, NY

No idea what guitar or whose setup will win the trophy. I am not in the contest and I know I'm not in contention. But my all-pull SD-12's are pretty loaded at 8 + 8 with 40 pulls. They play pretty well but there's no question they'd play better with a lightened load.

scott murray · From: Asheville, NC

Buddy Cage had the most I ever saw in person. 10 pedals and 14 knee levers, not sure how many individual changes that gave him.

I've got 10x11 on my Emmons with 48 changes currently.

Vance Terry had 19 pedals, not sure about knee levers

Al Petty had 21 pedals and several knee levers, guess he wins?

_________________
1965 Emmons S-10, 3x5 • Emmons LLIII D-10, 10x12 • JCH D-10, 10x12 • Beard MA-8 • Oahu Tonemaster

Baron Collins-Hill · From: Portland, OR

Very cool Jon, and itâ€™s by no means a contest! I appreciate you coming in.

Would love to see your copedent (only if you have it handy!), sounds like a very cool machine!

Thanks,
Baron
_________________
Excel Superb U14
Quilter TT15

Free Online Mandolin & Fiddle Tune Lessons
http://www.mandolessons.com

Baron Collins-Hill · From: Portland, OR

Wow Scott, wild stuff! Great to see those photos!

Thanks
Baron
_________________
Excel Superb U14
Quilter TT15

Free Online Mandolin & Fiddle Tune Lessons
http://www.mandolessons.com

Jon Light · From: Saugerties, NY

I've got this, identical or close to it, on a Fessenden and a Williams.

And almost inconceivably, I've got a new 12 string Emmons pp with 'a version of this setup' on a 3+4 rig.

Baron Collins-Hill · From: Portland, OR

Very cool! How does your vertical knee lever go to C or Bb?

Oh, must be splits! Just never seen it written that way.

Thanks
Baron
_________________
Excel Superb U14
Quilter TT15

Free Online Mandolin & Fiddle Tune Lessons
http://www.mandolessons.com

Ian Rae · From: Redditch, England

I have an Excel 12-string universal. As originally built it required 5 raises on string 5 to make it go, although I later removed one. The point about the Excel is that the way the raises and lowers are interleaved gives you greater choice of how far from the axle a pull may be attached. It's not just about quantity.

_________________
Make sleeping dogs tell the truth!
Homebuilt keyless U12 7x5, Excel keyless U12 8x8, Williams keyless U12 7x8, Telonics rack and 15" cabs

Ross Shafer · From: Petaluma, California

The more changes you cram on any given guitar, the more chance for problems and mechanical compromise you'll face. just because there's tons of options on great guitars like Excels, one should not see this as an opportunity to fill them all up as much as an opportunity to optimize the stuff you know you need and will use.

I've worked on some, what I'd call "overloaded" steels, where some of the changes just did not work well mechanically or even at all in a case or two.

One time my wife and I were enjoying a great band with a killer steel player. We were sitting about 6 feet away from and right in front of the steel player. The band was playing a set of what I'd call "soft rock" hits from the past, not a classic country selection at all. The steel was a very loaded up uni. At one point near the end of the set, my wife leans over and says, "why isn't steel player using anything but those three pedals on the end, when he has so many?"

Remember all the notes that a plethora of extra pedals and levers offer are there somewhere without all the extra complexity.

I'll end my blather with a statement that's been seen many, many times on this forum. Lloyd Green one of the instrument's top players by anyone's measure made a whole lot of fantastic steel music with an incredibly simple copedant. I'm not saying his simple setup should be adequate for everybody, but c'mon 10 pedals, knee levers in the teens....gimme a break!

OK, I'll duck, fire away.

Erv Niehaus · From: Litchfield, MN, USA

When I order a new pedal steel, I order it loaded up with pedals and levers.
I don't use most of them but they're there when I want to sell it and that's what some players are looking for. Very Happy

Erv

scott murray · From: Asheville, NC

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