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Topic: Amplifying Dobro, Mandolin, etc. |
Richard Sinkler
From:
aka: Rusty Strings -- Missoula, Montana
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Posted 8 Mar 2021 8:38 am |
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I am just getting ready to play Dobro and Mandolin with my band. The mandolin has a pickup, but sounds like crap through my amp. The dobro has no pickup and I'm not real exited about installing one. If I did, it would be the Fishman one that you need to replace the saddles on the guitar, and is fairly expensive and they say requires a pro to install.
So here is my situation. I want to mic these acoustic instruments through the PA (I prefer the mic'd sound over pickups), but still be able to have a monitor by me so I can hear them on our noisy stage. Using a monitor off the PA is not an option as I don't want to hear all the other stuff that is coming through the monitor feed. We mic the drums (drum machine as we can't find a decent drummer here in Missoula and the bass player has great patterns and control of the drum machine), guitar, vocals and PSG through the PA. So, I basically need to split my mic into different feeds for the PA and a stage amp.
I use a rack system that consists of an Evans DPR2 preamp and a stereo power amp. The Evans 2 channel preamp is literally just 2 single channel preamps in one unit. Each channel has it's own output with no way to sum the 2 preamps into one output ( a stupid decision on Evans' part in my opinion). I only have one speaker. So, I have the 2nd channel of the power amp I can use for my own monitor feed not affected by the PA, although I need another speaker. The PA only has one monitor out, so I would get all the other stuff I don't want in my monitor.
I'm currently leaning towards a small 4 channel mixer that I could plug my mandolin and a mic for the dobro into, although I would probably just use the same mic as the dobro for the mandolin for the better sound, and send one output to the board and one to my power amp for my monitor. So, 1 channel of the preamp and power amp would be my PSG, and the other power amp channel for the acoustic instruments run by the mixer and a monitor speaker of some sort.
I also have a Behringer 2 channel acoustic amp (one channel has an XLR input for a mic) that I could use, but I still want to use the microphone on dobro and mandolin. I would still need to split the mic signal in 2 for the board and Behringer.
Is there a better way to do this? I tried to find some kind of box that would split a mic signal into 2 outputs, but no luck. Plus, the mixer would give me a couple of extra inputs for, maybe, my lap steel.
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Carter D10 8p/8k, Dekley S10 3p/4k C6 setup,Regal RD40 Dobro, Recording King Professional Dobro, NV400, NV112,Ibanez Gio guitar, Epiphone SG Special (open D slide guitar) . Playing for 55 years and still counting. |
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Howard Parker
From:
Maryland
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Posted 8 Mar 2021 8:55 am
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Just be aware that mic'd resonator guitars are prone to be real feedback machines when encountering significant volume levels.
Hence the popularity of the Fishman system.
h
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Howard Parker
03\' Carter D-10
70\'s Dekley D-10
52\' Fender Custom
Many guitars by Paul Beard
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Richard Sinkler
From:
aka: Rusty Strings -- Missoula, Montana
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Posted 8 Mar 2021 9:21 am
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The monitored signal will not be that loud (I hope). Just loud enough to hear what I am playing. Plus, I am close enough to the mains to hear what is coming out of them to help with the volume issue.
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Hence the popularity of the Fishman system.
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For those that can afford it. I live on social security. I could probably afford the saddles, but not the Aura pedal. And would need a volume pedal to control volume instead of just backing away from the mic. Getting it professionally installed is another huge cost (I assume)/roadblock. I doubt anyone here in Missoula could do it. It's just a Regal Dobro, and I can't see putting more into a pickup "system" than the guitar cost. I'll just continue using the PSG and EQ dobro settings for the couple of songs I would use the dobro on.
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Carter D10 8p/8k, Dekley S10 3p/4k C6 setup,Regal RD40 Dobro, Recording King Professional Dobro, NV400, NV112,Ibanez Gio guitar, Epiphone SG Special (open D slide guitar) . Playing for 55 years and still counting. |
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K Maul
From:
Hadley, NY/Hobe Sound, FL
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Posted 8 Mar 2021 1:17 pm
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If you have limited funds it’s a real compromise but consider getting an old TEISCO electric guitar surface mount pickup. They are microphonic and can mimic a dobro sound with the right EQ.
Or sell the Regal and get a Gretsch Boxcar with a built in Fishman pickup. They are a good value for the cost. With either setup some kind of preamp or EQ pedal, would help greatly in getting a somewhat realistic dobro sound if you can’t afford the JD Aura or Aura Spectrum, which has dobro, mandolin, fiddle and guitar images as well as tuner, EQ, compression and XLR preamp out. Not cheap but lots of bang for your buck.
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KEVIN MAUL: Airline, Beard, Clinesmith, Danelectro, Evans, Fender, GFI, Gibson, Hilton, Ibanez, Justice, K+K, Live Strings, MOYO, National, Oahu, Peterson, Quilter, Rickenbacher, Sho~Bud, Supro, TC, Ultimate, VHT, Williams, X-otic, Yamaha, ZKing. |
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Jim Kennedy
From:
Brentwood California, USA
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Posted 8 Mar 2021 1:48 pm
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I have a Fishman Aura Spectrum DI box for acoustic guitar. It also has settings for mandolin and Dobro. It mixes an acoustic model with your dry signal. You can vary the wet dry mix to taste. It also has volume control, a phase switch, basic eq, compression, and some feedback canceling. Works pretty good, definetely adds a "micd" flavor to instruments that are not micd. Once set up right I have zero feedback problems playing acoustic guitar. I snagged a used one for $250.00. There is also a Jerry Douglas model that is specifically for Dobro.
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ShoBud Pro 1, 75 Tele, 85 Yamaha SA 2000, Fender Cybertwin, |
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Richard Sinkler
From:
aka: Rusty Strings -- Missoula, Montana
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Posted 8 Mar 2021 2:10 pm
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Hi Jim. You guys back to gigging again?
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Carter D10 8p/8k, Dekley S10 3p/4k C6 setup,Regal RD40 Dobro, Recording King Professional Dobro, NV400, NV112,Ibanez Gio guitar, Epiphone SG Special (open D slide guitar) . Playing for 55 years and still counting. |
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gary pierce
From:
Rossville TN
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Posted 8 Mar 2021 4:46 pm
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I have an Audio Technica pro 35 clip on mic if you want it. Just needs new foam around the mic. $30 shipped
Audio-Technica PRO 35 Cardioid Condenser Clip-on Instrument Microphone - XLR |
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Fred Treece
From:
California, USA
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Posted 8 Mar 2021 4:48 pm
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| Do you have only one channel in the main PA for all 3 instruments? I think it can be done with the equipment you have (including the 4ch mixer), assuming you can somehow get acceptable tone and volume from whatever mic is at your disposal. I’ve done all kinds of low-budget routing schemes for my multi-instrument setups. |
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Richard Sinkler
From:
aka: Rusty Strings -- Missoula, Montana
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Posted 8 Mar 2021 5:58 pm
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| Fred Treece wrote: |
| Do you have only one channel in the main PA for all 3 instruments? I think it can be done with the equipment you have (including the 4ch mixer), assuming you can somehow get acceptable tone and volume from whatever mic is at your disposal. I’ve done all kinds of low-budget routing schemes for my multi-instrument setups. |
No. There are a few channels available. My problem is I want a monitor (or stage amp) that just has my instrument. If I use the monitors from the PA that has all the vocals, drums, guitar and steel, it won't accomplish what I want. There is only one monitor feed from the board (Mackie 8 channel). The amp or monitor onstage doesn't have to be real loud because we mic everything but the bass. We use a drum machine, so the volume can be cut down onstage, actually it's not terribly loud now. Not like with a real drummer.
My PSG has it's own PA channel and will continue to do so. If I go the small mixer route, that will be for the Mandolin and dobro. Basically, the mixer is being used as a splitter so I can send a feed to the board and one to a stage amp or my power amp to a speaker (monitor) on stage.
Just using my PSG and an EQ (as I do now) to get a dobro sound for the few songs I would play dobro on is sounding like the best move.
I have both a small and large diaphram condensor mics. With the clip on, I would still have issues varying the volume level more than what I could control by picking technique.
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Carter D10 8p/8k, Dekley S10 3p/4k C6 setup,Regal RD40 Dobro, Recording King Professional Dobro, NV400, NV112,Ibanez Gio guitar, Epiphone SG Special (open D slide guitar) . Playing for 55 years and still counting. |
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Richard Sinkler
From:
aka: Rusty Strings -- Missoula, Montana
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Posted 8 Mar 2021 6:06 pm
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The band leader likes to do small brewpub type gigs as a single or preferably a duet. When I first moved here (Sept. 2019), I didn't have a dobro, so it was him on acoustic and me on steel. That really didn't work out that great and we stopped doing any duet gigs. I could use my acoustic amp at those gigs. He uses a small Fishman amp for his guitar an vocals. No PA. The point is to have very little equipment (very small areas to play) and easy/quick load-in and load-out.
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Carter D10 8p/8k, Dekley S10 3p/4k C6 setup,Regal RD40 Dobro, Recording King Professional Dobro, NV400, NV112,Ibanez Gio guitar, Epiphone SG Special (open D slide guitar) . Playing for 55 years and still counting. |
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Fred Treece
From:
California, USA
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Posted 8 Mar 2021 7:55 pm
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It really is an art form getting good tone, volume, and dynamics over a mic with acoustic instruments. That is first and foremost, because it’s hard to play well if you sound bad.
So mic’ing both dobro and mando into the Behringer, how does that sound? Or maybe just mic the mando into it, if you are okay with your dobro emulation on steel. Running two instruments into one mic is a pita anyway, all that noisy dinkin around with the boom or gooseneck trying to find the right spot. Plus, the mic is going to pick up some of that stage sound that you are trying to avoid by not having a monitor feed from the board. Does the mando suck plugged in to the Behringer? |
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Richard Sinkler
From:
aka: Rusty Strings -- Missoula, Montana
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Posted 9 Mar 2021 5:39 am
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| Fred Treece wrote: |
It really is an art form getting good tone, volume, and dynamics over a mic with acoustic instruments. That is first and foremost, because it’s hard to play well if you sound bad.
So mic’ing both dobro and mando into the Behringer, how does that sound? Or maybe just mic the mando into it, if you are okay with your dobro emulation on steel. Running two instruments into one mic is a pita anyway, all that noisy dinkin around with the boom or gooseneck trying to find the right spot. Plus, the mic is going to pick up some of that stage sound that you are trying to avoid by not having a monitor feed from the board. Does the mando suck plugged in to the Behringer? |
I actually have 2 mics, one for the dobro and one for the mandolin. I would use the small condenser on the boom for mandolin and the large condenser on one of those clamp on booms lower down on the stand. I was pretty decent at dynamic control using mics.
I haven't tried the mandolin with the Behringer, only through my PSG setup. My Behringer is at my band leaders house. The pickup on the mandolin is not piezo, but one of those that look like a guitar pickup. I don't have the dobro yet. It's to be delivered tomorrow.
About 15 or so years ago, I had 3 Tut Taylor dobros, one with a Fishman pickup that was the ring type that mounted to the screw that went through the resonator. Feedback problems galore. Using a Fishman amp. Went to micing with much better luck. Also had a Gibson F9 mando. I had to sell it all when I landed in the hospital, with no insurance, for a week and came out with a $98,000 bill I had to try to pay. I just got this cheapo mandolin I have now a few months ago.
The dobro and mandolin will only be used on a couple of songs each, and because of the extra amount of room I will need to stand and play dobro, it could only be used on one of the two regular gigs we play. The other gig barely has room for me, the bass, and guitar players. I actually have to sit with my back up against the wall/window that faces outside.
I am just relearning the mandolin and dobro, so nothing is going to happen real soon.
One idea I might explore, is one of those in-ear monitors that you plug your mic/instruments into and can control how much of everything you hear yourself. My ex has one she no longer uses that I might be able to get for cheap. I would be able to hear everything, but be able to jack up the volume of my instruments to where I can really hear them good.
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Carter D10 8p/8k, Dekley S10 3p/4k C6 setup,Regal RD40 Dobro, Recording King Professional Dobro, NV400, NV112,Ibanez Gio guitar, Epiphone SG Special (open D slide guitar) . Playing for 55 years and still counting. |
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Fred Treece
From:
California, USA
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Posted 9 Mar 2021 9:00 am
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| Sounds like you have options and contingencies to experiment with in your laboratory. Good luck! And when you get a setup that works out for you, post it back here. I will be curious. |
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Jim Kennedy
From:
Brentwood California, USA
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Posted 9 Mar 2021 11:29 am
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Have a couple gigs with Triple Treble, and Tracy has us booked foe New Years eve. Good luck getting your donor and mando going.
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ShoBud Pro 1, 75 Tele, 85 Yamaha SA 2000, Fender Cybertwin, |
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Richard Sinkler
From:
aka: Rusty Strings -- Missoula, Montana
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Posted 9 Mar 2021 1:07 pm
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| Jim Kennedy wrote: |
| Have a couple gigs with Triple Treble, and Tracy has us booked foe New Years eve. Good luck getting your donor and mando going. |
Thanks Jim. Say "Hi" to Heather and Mike for me.
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Carter D10 8p/8k, Dekley S10 3p/4k C6 setup,Regal RD40 Dobro, Recording King Professional Dobro, NV400, NV112,Ibanez Gio guitar, Epiphone SG Special (open D slide guitar) . Playing for 55 years and still counting. |
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Richard Sinkler
From:
aka: Rusty Strings -- Missoula, Montana
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Posted 9 Mar 2021 1:08 pm
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| Fred Treece wrote: |
| Sounds like you have options and contingencies to experiment with in your laboratory. Good luck! And when you get a setup that works out for you, post it back here. I will be curious. |
It will likely be a while. I have to relearn how to play these critters.
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Carter D10 8p/8k, Dekley S10 3p/4k C6 setup,Regal RD40 Dobro, Recording King Professional Dobro, NV400, NV112,Ibanez Gio guitar, Epiphone SG Special (open D slide guitar) . Playing for 55 years and still counting. |
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Paddy Long
From:
Christchurch, New Zealand
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Posted 14 Mar 2021 5:10 pm
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Richard I double on Dobro quite a lot, but I have the Fishman JD system in my MA6 Beard ... on loud stages I usually use a small Fishman Loudbox 100 amp facing back at me as a stage monitor and that usually allows me to hear myself fairly well ... and it has a DI out on the back of it for the desk, and so does my Dobro pedalboard.
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14'Zumsteel Hybrid D10 9+9
08'Zumsteel Hybrid D10 9+9
94' Franklin Stereo D10 9+8
Telonics, Peterson, Steelers Choice, Benado, Lexicon, Red Dirt Cases. |
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