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Topic: Pull/Release steel guitars |
Tim Johnson
From:
Cadiz, KY, USA
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Posted 25 Feb 2021 4:08 pm |
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I’ve noticed that most all the pull/release type guitars seem to be 24†scale, I’m speaking of both vintage guitars and newer models. Just curious to know if there is a reason for it?
Thanks |
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Chris Lucker
From:
Los Angeles, California USA
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Posted 26 Feb 2021 12:54 am
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Interesting. From my experience that is not the case. I don’t think I can name a 1940s or 1950s pull release guitar that is 24 inch scale other than a handful of 1959 nine string Sho-Buds that had to be 24 inch scale to fit the longer keyheads on the cabinets and fit the pedal rack castings. Maybe the longer scale pull release guitars are pre-Vintage?
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Chris Lucker
Red Bellies, Bigsbys and a lot of other guitars. |
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Ian Rae
From:
Redditch, England
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Posted 26 Feb 2021 2:36 am
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There is no connection between scale length and the type of changer.
Having said that, because a pull-release cannot raise and lower the same string, it's kinder to strings and might help them to last longer on a longer guitar with its higher tension.
I used to have a pull-release D10. Sadly I can't remember the exact length, but I'm sure it was more than 24"
_________________
Make sleeping dogs tell the truth!
Homebuilt keyless U12 7x5, Excel keyless U12 8x8, Williams keyless U12 7x8, Telonics rack and 15" cabs |
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Tim Johnson
From:
Cadiz, KY, USA
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Posted 26 Feb 2021 4:25 am Pull release
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| Strange, I have two Marlen pull/release guitars and they are both 24” scale. Aren’t the sho bud Mavericks shorter scale and like the MSA Red Baron etc... I just measured my Emmons fatback and Rittenberry, they are both 241/4 scale. I was just curious to know if maybe there was a reason. Thanks |
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Patrick Fleming
From:
South Dakota, USA
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Posted 26 Feb 2021 5:31 am
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| For what it is worth, My 70's fender S10 pull release (by sho bud)is 24 1/4 inc scale and my 80's sho bud super pro is 24 inch scale. I should have kept the fender... |
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Tim Johnson
From:
Cadiz, KY, USA
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Posted 26 Feb 2021 9:06 am Scale
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| I have a sho bud fender also. I might dig it out over the weekend and check the scale. It is pull release also. |
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David Ball
From:
North Carolina High Country
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Posted 26 Feb 2021 12:02 pm
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Both of my Sho Bud permanents are 24 inch scale, as was my Marlen. I've had some other pull release guitars with 25 inch scale.
For what it's worth, both my Marlen and my newer (circa 62 or so) Sho Bud raised and lowered the E's with two different raises and a single lower, so at least on these guitars raising and lowering the same string isn't a problem for a pull release guitar (although it's somewhat tricky to set up...).
Dave |
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Chris Lucker
From:
Los Angeles, California USA
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Posted 26 Feb 2021 12:21 pm
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I guess a sign I am getting old os that I don't consider 1960s or 70's pedal steels as vintage. I was thinking in terms of Bigsbys, Wright Customs, Blankenships, DALANDS, AJ Smiths, Domlands. Knights etc.
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Chris Lucker
Red Bellies, Bigsbys and a lot of other guitars. |
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Chris Lucker
From:
Los Angeles, California USA
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Posted 26 Feb 2021 12:26 pm
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Something else to think about is a "pull release" guitar is that some had pulls for lowers using pivoting tuning keys or bellcranks behind the fingers -- meaning a bellcrank mounted between the finger and the endplate that would pull the solid finger toward the endplate rather than release it toward the endplate.
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Chris Lucker
Red Bellies, Bigsbys and a lot of other guitars. |
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David Ball
From:
North Carolina High Country
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Posted 26 Feb 2021 1:08 pm
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| Chris Lucker wrote: |
| I guess a sign I am getting old os that I don't consider 1960s or 70's pedal steels as vintage. I was thinking in terms of Bigsbys, Wright Customs, Blankenships, DALANDS, AJ Smiths, Domlands. Knights etc. |
It's like what passes for "antiques" these days. Stuff that I bought new...
Dave |
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Henry Matthews
From:
Texarkana, Ark USA
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Posted 1 Mar 2021 11:38 am
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Not knowing much about a pull release, are y’all sure you can’t raise and lower same string? Isn’t a Miller pull release? I had one and it would lower and raise same string. It was an easy playing guitar if I remember correctly but a bugger to tune. Been a lot of years.
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Henry Matthews
D-10 Magnum, 8 &5, dark rose color
D-10 1974 Emmons cut tail, fat back,rosewood, 8&5
Nashville 112 amp, Fishman Loudbox Performer amp, Hilton pedal, Goodrich pedal,BJS bar, Kyser picks, Live steel Strings. No effects, doodads or stomp boxes. |
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David Ball
From:
North Carolina High Country
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Posted 1 Mar 2021 11:44 am
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| Henry Matthews wrote: |
| Not knowing much about a pull release, are y’all sure you can’t raise and lower same string? Isn’t a Miller pull release? I had one and it would lower and raise same string. It was an easy playing guitar if I remember correctly but a bugger to tune. Been a lot of years. |
You can raise and lower the same string on a pull release, but it takes a little extra doing underneath the guitar. You tune the lower at the changer, the raise at the peghead and the open string underneath the guitar where a bit of extra mechanics lets you set that in between pitch. I think that the later Marlens had the "underneath" part tuneable through the endplate. My Marlen and Sho Bud both required getting to the underside of the guitar though. Rock solid once you get it set up.
Dave |
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Tim Johnson
From:
Cadiz, KY, USA
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Posted 1 Mar 2021 1:10 pm Pull release
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| Yes you can raise and lower same string, but I think the raise dominates like on push pull. |
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Barry Coker
From:
Bagley Alabama, USA
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Posted 1 Mar 2021 4:20 pm
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Some of the very early Sho Buds could not Raise and lower the same string but its really a simple matter.
The two rods use the spring to hold 4 & 8 at E when the leaver that lowers the E's is engaged the spring is compressed PUSHED for E flat another pair of rods Pull the E's to F and the changer finger slide over the lowering rods and Releasing the Springs hold.
_________________
Zum-D-10, Webb 614-E, 65 Pro Reverb, Evans RE200, 69 Gibson Birdland, 89 Telecaster EAD Bad!! |
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Ian Rae
From:
Redditch, England
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Posted 1 Mar 2021 4:43 pm
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I rigged mine up like that to raise and lower the Es (and the 3rd string on the C6). The downside is that to accommodate the lower, there has to be some slack in the raise before it engages.
_________________
Make sleeping dogs tell the truth!
Homebuilt keyless U12 7x5, Excel keyless U12 8x8, Williams keyless U12 7x8, Telonics rack and 15" cabs |
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Barry Coker
From:
Bagley Alabama, USA
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Posted 1 Mar 2021 4:53 pm
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Exactly Ian if LKR lowers E's and LKL Raises E's when you engage LKL the LKR will follow if raise and lower are on the same knee NO Issue if they are on different Knees there can be a problem of room to move.
That is where the Push Pull started the extra mechanical setup allows Raise and Lower on the same string without the Action/Reaction affect.
Barry
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Zum-D-10, Webb 614-E, 65 Pro Reverb, Evans RE200, 69 Gibson Birdland, 89 Telecaster EAD Bad!! |
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John Larson
From:
Pennsyltucky, USA
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Posted 1 Mar 2021 10:01 pm
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Something that is cool on my Jackson Maverick HD is that the raises override the lowers so if I hold the LKR lower and abuse the C pedal I can do some harmonic minor style single note licks on the E string.
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Rejoice in the Lord, O ye righteous; praise is meet for the upright. Give praise to the Lord with the harp, chant unto Him with the ten-stringed psaltery. Sing unto Him a new song, chant well unto Him with jubilation. For the word of the Lord is true, and all His works are in faithfulness. The Lord loveth mercy and judgement; the earth is full of the mercy of the Lord.
- Psalm 33:1-5 |
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Ian Rae
From:
Redditch, England
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Posted 2 Mar 2021 1:16 am
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Isn't it strange how when an "improvement" comes along it can actually lose you something. My latest car has many useful features but it doesn't have a CD player, so I have to transfer everything to mp3
_________________
Make sleeping dogs tell the truth!
Homebuilt keyless U12 7x5, Excel keyless U12 8x8, Williams keyless U12 7x8, Telonics rack and 15" cabs |
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