Rank Beginner Pedal Question

Dan Brooks · From: Ohio, USA

I'm asking more rank beginner questions. I have a 1981 Sho Bud Pro 1. I want to verify, is the attached string/pedal tuning chart is correct? Also I'm assuming that the circled notes are the pitches created when the pedals or knee levers are engaged, correct? Also, does this chart represent a good starting point for beginning to learn to play this steel? Thanks in advance!

Justin Emmert · From: Greensboro, NC

Pretty standard except for LL. Standard would be raising 4&8, but it’s raising 8 and lowering 2. If I remember correctly, this copedent is maybe considered a bit old. They did not raise 4 because of tuning issues with that raise, but with the advent of sweetened tunings and modern tech, it’s become standard to raise 4. In my opinion, nothing wrong with this copedent and a good place to start. You don’t lose much not raising 4 that you can’t get another way.

Richard Sinkler · From: aka: Rusty Strings -- Missoula, Montana

Back when guitars only came with 2 levers, it was very common (almost standard) to lower 2 and 8 on one and raise 4 and 8 on the other. The levers as listed are not normal. one of the reasons they didn't lower 4 was that there is a D# on string 2 that could be used in it's place, ala Lloyd Green and several others. I have never seen a lever that raised 8 and lowered 2. On that guitar, if it were mine, I would have one lever lowering 4 and 8, and one that raises 4 and 8.. I don't use the 2nd string lowers near as much as I do the 4th string lower.
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Carter D10 8p/8k, Dekley S10 3p/4k C6 setup,Regal RD40 Dobro, Recording King Professional Dobro, NV400, NV112,Ibanez Gio guitar, Epiphone SG Special (open D slide guitar) . Playing for 55 years and still counting.

Dan Brooks · From: Ohio, USA

Thanks guys! Is it a big deal to make those changes? New parts, etc?

Brint Hannay · From: Maryland, USA

Ron Pruter · From: Arizona, USA

Dan, On the sixth string, stay with the type of string that's on there now-in regards to wound or plain. Also, a .014 for the first string seems a little tight. I'd recommend a .013 or ,if you ever want to bend the first up to a G#, a .012 Smile

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Dan Brooks · From: Ohio, USA

So just to dumb it down for my benefit, what changes SHOULD the two knee levers be making...most commonly speaking? And please state it so that you refer to the levers left or right as you're sitting at the guitar. Sorry for being so dense.

Jon Light (deceased) · From: Saugerties, NY

The most conventional wisdom would be:

LKL (left knee moving to the left) raises both E's to F

RKL (right knee moving to the left) either lowers both E's to D#
-OR-
lowers string 8, E > D# and lowers string 2, D# > D .

After years of lowering both E's, I would hate to not have that on a steel but, like Lloyd, starting out with lowering only the 8th string E makes lots of sense and that 2nd string change is pretty important, IMO.

Re:

Dan Brooks · From: Ohio, USA

On this guitar the Left lever only moves left and the Right lever only moves right. Currently the tuning changes are...

L knee to the left drops strings 2 & 8 from E to D#
R knee to the right raises strings 2 & 8 from E to F.

Should I live with this or make changes?

Richard Sinkler · From: aka: Rusty Strings -- Missoula, Montana

Tony Glassman · From: The Great Northwest

The circled notes are the changes on that particular pedal or lever which requires the longest throw or excursion . This is important for determining the correct pedal or lever travel end stops.

Dan Brooks · From: Ohio, USA

Apologies! What I meant to write was strings 4 & 8 on both of those.
Is changing those side for side a big deal? I have a pretty good array of mechanical skills. I've been an instrument builder/repairman for about 20 years. Also worked in and ran the Stewart-MacDonald Shop for 16 years. I've played dobro for about 40 years...20-plus professionally. I'm hoping that gives me at least a little leg up on playing this steel.

Thanks again for the tolerance.

Richard Sinkler · From: aka: Rusty Strings -- Missoula, Montana

Dan Brooks · From: Ohio, USA

Thanks a million gentlemen. This is highly appreciated. I'll chime back in after I've done the work. Thanks again!

Tucker Jackson · From: Portland, Oregon, USA

It's recommended that you document everything before disassembly. You need to keep all the leverages the same in the new setup as they were in the old.

For example, on the 4th string lower, you want to note the slot in the bellcrank that it used on the original lever, and then recreate that and use the same slot on the new lever's bellcrank. And use the same hole in the changer as before (if this guitar has a double-lower changer and gives you that choice).

Same rules for the other 3 changes; when you're done, a given note-change will be on a different lever, but the leverage settings that were in place in the old location will have been moved over' and maintained intact on the new lever. Said another way, the leverage settings stick with a given note-change and move with it to the new lever -- rather than leverages sticking with the old lever location, regardless of the note involved.

Write all this down and take multiple pictures before ripping the guitar apart. That way, you can put it back if things go seriously wrong.

ALso, for future generations reading this thread, the copedent chart at the top is quite misleading -- and also, incorrect based on your latest description of what's really on the guitar.

A normal chart lists the levers from left to right. Meanwhile, this chart lists the right knee lever first... and then the left lever is in the next column. This might have confused some folks in the discussion.

And... even grasping that the chart is confusing, it doesn't match the direction your right lever moves nor the changes that are actually on your guitar now, which are:

LKL: E Lowers
RKR: E Raises

I think the person who filled in the copendent chart back in the day used the logical standard and put the left knee's info in the first column -- even though the header for that column says 'R-L.' Just scratch that header out and swap the column titles and you'll be closer to 'actual current.' While you're at it, change 'R-L' to 'R-R,' since you said it moves to the right.

And then at some later date, somebody took off the 2nd string lower and moved it over and made it a 4th string raise. And here we are. Ready to make the swap -- and a new chart. Winking

Dan Brooks · From: Ohio, USA

That sounds like excellent advice Tucker. I'll probably give it a try this weekend. I really appreciate all the input from all you guys. I know quite a bit about dobros, banjos, acoustic guitars, Teles, Strats and LP's and the like but this is a new undertaking for me....both mechanically AND musically. There are a few steel breaks that appeal to me a lot and always have. Just hoping I can get close. Many, many thanks. Hopefully I won't post with a sad story!

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