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Topic: MSA Classic Tuners |
Angus Smith
From:
Western Australia
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Posted 12 Feb 2021 3:37 pm |
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Hi Guys
I am chasing 2x set of tuners for my MSA Classic SS.
I have looked at the Sperzel and Grover selections, but wondered if any options for this guitar is available considering the close head space of the tuners on the head.
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Dennis Detweiler
From:
Solon, Iowa, US
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Posted 12 Feb 2021 7:45 pm
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I switched out all of the Sperzel tuners 12:1 ratio with Grover 18:1. The difference in ratio makes it much easier to tune.
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1976 Birdseye U-12 MSA with Telonics 427 pickup, 1975 Birdseye U-12 MSA with Telonics X-12 pickup, Revelation preamp, Carbon Copy Delay and Hall Of Fame Reverb, Crown XLS 1002, 2- 15" Eminence Wheelhouse speakers, ShoBud Pedal, Effects Pedals. 1949 Epiphone D-8. |
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Bobby D. Jones
From:
West Virginia, USA
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Posted 12 Feb 2021 8:07 pm
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I replaced the keys on my MSA S10 SN 1C2921 born July 9, 1974.
Check close if you use Grover keys, You may have to drill out the key heads. I think they went metric for the world market. On my guitar, The original keys had 3/8" sleeve that went through the key head. The new ones had a 10mm sleeve.
I had to drill the key head out to 25/64 inch to fit the sleeve of the new keys. MSA had used a rather large headed, self tapping lock screw, On each key. There screws were so hard, I had to grind the head down with a Dremel Tool to get them to clear the gear housing.
What looked like a 1 hour job at string changing time, Turned into much bigger job, And took a lot more tools than planned.
Check close and measure, Before you commit to this project.
Good Luck if you do. |
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Larry Bressington
From:
Nebraska
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Posted 12 Feb 2021 8:33 pm
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I used these, they are Grover 102 C. X18 I chose keystone tuner buttons for better clearance on the SS if I remember correctly.
The best thing you can do is take one of yours out and use a dial caliper and go to the Grover site and look at all the measurements per model, I highly recommend the Keystone tuner buttons, (I can’t remember now if I bought those separately ) if you look at my photo you can see the clearance between the keys, this SS (Super small) models has a shortened body and keyhead, and as you know the original Grovers were very tight together they almost clashed...Also the 18 ratio is very smooth and precise for micro tweaking, especially nice if you use a plain sixth string that’s volatile.
One other note, if I remember correctly the alignment pins didn’t lineup with the key head alignment hole, so I ended up trimming them off and adding a dab of epoxy on the face of the key head mount and then tightening them down, i’ve never had any problems, i’m sure removal will be possible but I don’t see that being necessary anytime soon.
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A.K.A Chappy. |
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Bobby D. Jones
From:
West Virginia, USA
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Posted 13 Feb 2021 3:49 pm
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I would suggest that you remove the outside key bars from the guitar when you start to replace the tuners. Go under the body there is 2 screws that hold the bar in place. It makes it easier to remove tuners with a socket and rachet wrench, Less chance damage to the body between the key heads also.
Be sure to check the clearance between he shafts on strings 5 and 6. On some guitars you have to grind or file some material off the end of tuner shaft so they do not touch and bind each other.
If you have to drill the bars to fit the new keys stem or for the locking pin, It would be easier and more accurate to level the key flats in a padded vise, And drill them with a drill press.
I would suggest drilling a new hole if the lock pin does not align. It will be out of site and not be seen till it is time to replace the keys. In about 40 years. |
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David Hodan
From:
Denton, Texas; USA
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Posted 14 Feb 2021 5:49 pm Locking Grovers
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It's lockinig Grovers for me...
dth |
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Larry Bressington
From:
Nebraska
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Posted 16 Feb 2021 6:09 pm
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I am pretty certain the SS used the same tuning key as the (non) SS, however with the SS the alignment ear was cut off. If you look at the photo's you will see on the (non) SS model such as Dave Hoden's pic, it has the tuning key alignment screw....if you look at my pic, the SS does not have the alignment screw. You have to shave the ear off with a dremel, that's how they got the short keyhead to work.
I remember going around the marlbury bush myself to get this sorted, but it's been a while.
*Keystone buttons is the way to go for clearance on SS Models.
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A.K.A Chappy. |
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Bobby D. Jones
From:
West Virginia, USA
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Posted 16 Feb 2021 7:57 pm
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The Grover 102-18C is keys that have the flange and hole for the lock screw that is exposed. This is the keys I replaced on this long key Head MSA.
The tuners that Larry Bressington shows in his post is the 102C- X18 It has the pin on the back of the gear case that needs a hole drilled so the lock pin will fit right in the tuner bar.
The 102 or 102C is the keys model number, The 18 denotes 1-18 gearing that allows very precise tuning.
Be sure to check very close the model and measurement to get the right key that will fit with the least drilling and fitting the keys. |
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Bobby D. Jones
From:
West Virginia, USA
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Posted 17 Feb 2021 3:37 pm
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Check the old keys with the new keys carefully.
Here is a picture of the old and new tuners for the MSA long key head.
The new keys have a .020 larger sleeve, Holes had to be opened to 25/64" to fit.
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