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Topic: 13th chords |
bob grossman
From:
Visalia CA USA
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Posted 3 Jul 2006 6:08 am |
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This is for those who don't care a'tall.
Rememeber the bar slams of Speedy West and those of us who copied him.
Bill Tonnesen, steel player for Ole Rasmussen for years, taught me something by watching him. If he slammed a chord on the E13 at the root position, he killed the D string. Makes sense, the b7 doesn't belong at the root positionl.
If you slide from the V to the I a fret at a time, the D string should be muted at the I.
I'll be surprised if I get any response.
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JW Day
From:
Elizabethtown, Kentucky, USA
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Posted 3 Jul 2006 6:47 am
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| Bob, I assume that you are going with A no pedal slide, if so, what strings are you using? Sounds very interesting. Thanks, JW Day |
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Tim Whitlock
From:
Colorado, USA
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Posted 3 Jul 2006 7:00 am
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I care, Bob. I play western swing, hillbilly boogie and rockabilly and I love to do bar crashes, car horns, spank the strings with the picks, bar chatter, doo-wah, etc, ala Speedy West. I normally crash the full 8 string 13th chord and it sounds fine. When playing the I chord with picks I will normally avoid the b7th until just before moving to the IV. How do you mute it when you crash the bar? With your right hand I suppose?
PS - Ever hear Speedy's version of Les Paul's "Lover"? It's way cool as he bar crashes and doo-wahs the whole main theme (8 bars twice around) using 13th chords. Then he kind of percolates the strings by tapping on them with his picks. It's crazy man! Heard it on a collection of live performances from the Tennesse Ernie Ford Show. |
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Jon Light
From:
Saugerties, NY
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Posted 3 Jul 2006 7:21 am
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| Quote: |
| I'll be surprised if I get any response. |
I can't imnagine why you would say that. Interesting topic. I too am curious how you mute the string.
edit------
it occurs to me--what tuning? If the D is the low string I can see the muting possibilities. I have B-D-E on the bottom and that's a different kettle of kielbasa.[This message was edited by Jon Light on 03 July 2006 at 08:24 AM.] |
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Webb Kline
From:
Orangeville, PA
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Posted 3 Jul 2006 7:28 am
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Are you including the b7 in its proper root position location or eliminating it altogether?
If I'm comping 9, 11 or 13 chords with my left hand on the piano I nearly always skip the root note and play the b7 there. Not being as proficient on the steel, I can't tell without sitting behind the guitar whether or not I do it the same, but I'm pretty sure that I do. The root is being played by the bass and usually another instrument anyway. To my ear, a 13th sounds better if there is separation between the b7 and the 13th notes and it is nearly impossible for anyone shy of a span like Oscar Pedersen to play a one-fisted 13th substitute any other way. For jazz, with few exceptions, it just sounds right to me. I guess it would depend on what tonal texture you are looking for.
If you are doing a quick I, VI, II, V turnaround, for example, you can play the root chord, go up 3 half steps and come down chromatically back to the root and essentially pull it off as fast as you need to. Although on C6 I usually get my V chord with my 6 pedal, 2 frets above the root. This works on piano or any stringed instrument. But I'm not sure that I can see how you can avoid the below-root b7.
But, now that you've brought it up, I will lay around awake at night until I have time to experiment.  |
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Bobby Lee
From:
Cloverdale, California, USA
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Posted 3 Jul 2006 8:00 am
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The trick is to avoid seconds, as they muddy up the chord. You don't need a high 5th or a root above the b7. Those are the things to avoid.
A 13th without a b7 is not a 13th. It's a 6th or a 6/9. If you want a 13th chord, you must have the b7 and 13th notes.
As for the question of how to mute the b7 when necessary: I often mute single strings with the thumb of my left hand or with my right pinky. The left hand thumb technique isn't easy if you're doing bar slams, so I'd go for the right pinky approach. If you don't have a pick on your ring finger, that would work, too.
To practice, touch the string with your finger and sweep the rest ot the strings with your thumb. Work on muting the 7th, 8th and 9th strings independently. After a while, it gets easy.
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Bobby Lee
From:
Cloverdale, California, USA
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Posted 3 Jul 2006 8:06 am
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| Quote: |
| If you slide from the V to the I a fret at a time, the D string should be muted at the I. |
That's true. I'd mute the root on the V 13th chord, and then mute the b7 (slamming the root instead) when I reach the I chord. Another, jazzier option would be to lower the b7 to 6 when reaching the I chord.
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bob grossman
From:
Visalia CA USA
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Posted 4 Jul 2006 5:20 pm
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Mr. Day:
I was referring to a 13th tuning, such as the E13 used years ago: from the top; E C# B G# F# D B G#. If you slam the bar across all the strings, at the root chord - E in this cse - the D note should be muted. It is a b7 and doesn't work with the I chord.
I think Bill Tonnesen muted the string with the third finger of his right hand.
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Gene E. Jones
From:
Texas, USA
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Posted 5 Jul 2006 10:04 am
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| along this same line, which song was it that speedy west started a song with the slanmming of the strings. He was playing that solo then the music started. I bought an extensive selection of his playing but I was never satisfied that I heard the tune that I am referring to. Does anyone recall this tune? thanks gene |
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Tim Whitlock
From:
Colorado, USA
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Posted 5 Jul 2006 1:56 pm
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| I think "Blackberry Boogie" started with 4 bar slams and then 4 more after the guitar comes in. |
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Bob Kagy
From:
Lafayette, CO USA
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Posted 5 Jul 2006 2:47 pm
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| Gene, also "Railroadin'". |
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