| Author |
Topic: Looking for help creating a new codependent |
Justin Jacobson
From:
Rochester, MN
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Posted 14 Jan 2021 4:15 pm |
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Hey everyone,
Haven’t posted in quite a number of years. But this is definitely the place that can point me in the right direction.
I have a sho bud sho pro II. 8 pedal, 4 knee.
I have no problems with the E9th side. Love it.
But I’ve definitely learned over the past 10 years that I’m not gonna be learning C6. It’s just a bit much and doesn’t fit into what I do.
So I’m looking to change the codependent on that neck to something I would use more.
I play mostly atmospheric folk music, write songs on guitar with lots of open tunings, utilizing drone strings quite a bit. Outside of standard 6 string tuning I use DADGAD a lot. So I’m trying to come up with something that will complement that, do a lot with drone notes and changes around those.
Problem is I have no real knowledge of what the limits (mechanically) of my steel are. And my Knowledge of music theory is extremely limited as well (I’m a by ear player).
I know I want something that will lend itself to more ambient, atmospheric playing. Will play well with lots of delay and reverb and other effects. Something simple but interesting.
So if anyone has any resources that would be useful or have ideas I would love to hear them.
Thanks everyone!
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http://soundcloud.com/tower-4
ShoBud Pro2 - Strobostomp - POG2 - mojo hand iron bell - WMD Geiger Counter - EHX Freeze - Earth Drive - catalinbread pareidolia - fender volume/tone - boss dd-3 - behringer vibrato - boss bf-2 - boss dc-2 - neo ventilator - catlinbread echorec - strymon timeline - eventide space - fender blues deluxe |
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Gaylen James
From:
Portland, Oregon, USA
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Posted 14 Jan 2021 5:46 pm Wow, good question
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| Cant wait to hear for suggestions. I would consider C6 changes too |
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Dennis Montgomery
From:
Western Washington
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Posted 15 Jan 2021 1:22 pm
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I have a crazy idea that I've thought about for a few years 
Begin with just 6 strings and tune them to the open strings on standard tuning with an E-A-D-G-B-E. Setup pedals and knees to pull the same changes to those strings as we do to create chords on a regular guitar neck. For example:
pedal A: pull string A to a B, string D to an E and string G to a G# (your major root string 6 pedal)
pedal B: pull string A to a B, string D to an E (your minor root string 6 pedal)
pedal C: pull string A to a B (your minor 7 root string 6 pedal)
pedal 4: pull string D to an E, string G to an A, string B to a C# (major root string 5 pedal)
pedal 5: pull string D to an E, string G to an A, string B to a C (minor root string 5 pedal)
...etc...
Or a different approach, and much more flexible, would be each pedal/knee alters a specific string by +1 or +2 semitones and then chords are built with different combinations of pedals/knees. This might be fun to solo on as well as you could press whatever necessary pedals/knees to give you a pentatonic scale in open position and easily play blues solos 'till you drop!
Thought about trying it on my Fender 400, but the "1 string can only be altered by 1 sharp or flat interval" limitation keeps it from being a workable platform. Maybe someday I'll pick up a spare 10 string 5x5 to experiment on 
_________________
Hear my latest album, "Celestial" featuring a combination of Mullen SD12 and Synthesizers:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mhh6b_xXTx4&list=PLfXm8aXRTFz0x-Sxso0NWw493qAouK
Hear my album, "Armistice" featuring Fender 400 on every song:
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLfXm8aXRTFz2Pz_GXhvmjne7lPEtsplyW
Hear my Pedal Steel Only playlist featuring Mullen G2 SD12 on covers like Candyman, Wild Horses, Across the Universe & more...
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLfXm8aXRTFz2f0JOyiXpZyzNrvnJObliA |
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b0b
From:
Cloverdale, CA, USA
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Posted 16 Jan 2021 12:18 am
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I think you mean copedent, not codependent. (Damn auto-correct!)
A pentatonic major tuning sounds really good for ambient, atmospheric, and new age music. I used a D69th when I was first starting out. When I switched to E9th, I discovered that it had the same intervals by using 2 knee levers. Different string order on top, but that's the nature of E9th. Those 2 levers make a B69th chord (B major pentatonic scale) at the nut. Or you can just use the D lever for an E69th.
| Tab: |
kE kD
F#
D# --C#
G#
E -D#
B
G#
F#
E -D#
D -C#
B |
It's a beautiful, mellow scale, and you probably already have it on your guitar.
| Tab: |
E major pentatonic
F# ____________________________5_____5_________________
D# ______________________5D_______________5D___________
G# _______________________________5____________________
E _________________________5E_________5E______________
B ___________________5_______________________5________
G# ________________5_____________________________5_____
F# _____________5___________________________________5__
E _________5E_________________________________________5E________
D _____5D_________________________________________________5D____
B __5_________________________________________________________5_
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You can get the same effect by adding a middle D string to C6th, sacrificing the 10th string (low C).
_________________
-𝕓𝕆𝕓- (admin) - Robert P. Lee - Recordings - Breathe - D6th - Video |
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K Maul
From:
Hadley, NY/Hobe Sound, FL
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Posted 16 Jan 2021 6:25 am
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Without having to totally reinvent the wheel, it seems that C6 with D on the top instead of G, plus a basic understanding of how pedal 6 works making Fmaj9 could render lots of the atmospheric tones you are looking to get. If it was tuned down to B6 it would be a logical extension of your E9 neck and could be even more useful and speed up the learning curve, I would think.
Food for though.
_________________
KEVIN MAUL: Airline, Beard, Clinesmith, Donner, Evans, Excel, Fender, Fluger, GFI, Gibson, Hilton, Ibanez, Justice, K+K, Live Strings, MOYO, National, Oahu, Peterson, Quilter, Rickenbacher, Sho~Bud, Supro, TC, Ultimate, VHT, Williams, X-otic, Yamaha, ZKing. |
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Dennis Montgomery
From:
Western Washington
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scott murray
From:
Asheville, NC
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Posted 17 Jan 2021 3:58 pm
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I think it helps to think of C6 as Fmaj9 tuning, and to raise string 6 E to F (I raise both Es together) and also raise Cs to D somewhere. this has really opened up the tuning for me and helps to get away from the 6th and dom7 sound that is so prevalent on the back neck.
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1965 Emmons S-10, 3x5 • Emmons LLIII D-10, 10x12 • JCH D-10, 10x12 • Beard MA-8 • Oahu Tonemaster |
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William Gallagher
From:
California, USA
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Posted 18 Jan 2021 9:47 am
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Hi Justin, if you're not already familiar with him you may want to check out Chas Smith. You can find a few vids on YouTube and here's a Fretboard Journal piece with more info. I have no clue what his tuning or copedent is!
https://www.fretboardjournal.com/features/steel-guitars-chas-smith/
_________________
'75 Emmons p/p, Duesenberg Alamo, Dobro with Hipshot, Nashville 112, Little Walter 22/50, Fender Blues Deluxe, and enough effects gear to fill a dump truck. |
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Dennis Montgomery
From:
Western Washington
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b0b
From:
Cloverdale, CA, USA
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Posted 18 Jan 2021 4:18 pm
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| Dennis Montgomery wrote: |
Had a closer look and I split my E's with both of the above changes on my right knee so this is a no-go  |
I do now, too, so I put the 2nd string C# on the zero pedal. I don't use a half stop on the 2nd string D.
_________________
-𝕓𝕆𝕓- (admin) - Robert P. Lee - Recordings - Breathe - D6th - Video |
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Dennis Montgomery
From:
Western Washington
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b0b
From:
Cloverdale, CA, USA
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Posted 18 Jan 2021 8:24 pm
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| What I mean is, my knee lever just lowers D# to D (which I use a lot), and my zero pedal lowers it to C#. |
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Dennis Montgomery
From:
Western Washington
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Dennis Montgomery
From:
Western Washington
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Posted 19 Jan 2021 10:58 am
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So I sat down at the Mullen to try this out and realized I was confusing the Major pentatonic scale with the minor pentatonic (aka "blues" scale). I use the blues scale for soloing frequently, so wondered if I could find it across all 12 strings holding a combination of pedals and levers. I was able to dial up an A minor pentatonic in open position with just the use of the standard B pedal and RKR half stop (dropping string 2 by 1/2 step). Here's what I got with my 12 string in extended D9:
So for A blues: A - C - D - E - G - A
| Code: |
Str 1 E (5th)
Str 2 C (RKR) (m3)
Str 3 G (Ped B)(m7)
Str 4 D (4th)
Str 5 A (root)
Str 6 G (Ped B)(m7)
Str 7 E (5th)
Str 8 D (4th)
Str 9 C (m3)
Str 10 A (root)
Str 11 G (Ped B)(m7)
Str 12 D (4th)
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I know it's also common to add the D# into the A blues scale for that D-D#-E chromatic feel and that's easy as well. On all 3 open strings playing the D, I just lean into my F lever to get that half step raise to D#.
Of course this is just the 1st step...the next is learning how to slide all these notes 1 or 2 frets up or down to smooth out soloing.
Finding this blues scale appearing so easily across all 12 strings is probably common knowledge for many out there but an exciting new discovery for me
_________________
Hear my latest album, "Celestial" featuring a combination of Mullen SD12 and Synthesizers:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mhh6b_xXTx4&list=PLfXm8aXRTFz0x-Sxso0NWw493qAouK
Hear my album, "Armistice" featuring Fender 400 on every song:
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLfXm8aXRTFz2Pz_GXhvmjne7lPEtsplyW
Hear my Pedal Steel Only playlist featuring Mullen G2 SD12 on covers like Candyman, Wild Horses, Across the Universe & more...
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLfXm8aXRTFz2f0JOyiXpZyzNrvnJObliA |
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b0b
From:
Cloverdale, CA, USA
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Posted 19 Jan 2021 11:24 am
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Remember, Am7 = C6. On E9th, that's Bm7 = D6. Here's further translation:
| Tab: |
Bm7 / D6 on the E9th neck
pedalB kneeD
F#
D# -D
G# +A
E
B
G# +A
F#
E
D <-major root
B <-minor root |
To get a spacey sound, try playing 12th fret harmonics with that pedal and knee. Use the 9th string D as a root drone to figure out the fingering on the top 4 strings. It's a pentatonic major scale.
For blues in E, play at the 5th fret using that pedal and knee. That's the pentatonic minor scale.
_________________
-𝕓𝕆𝕓- (admin) - Robert P. Lee - Recordings - Breathe - D6th - Video |
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Rich Peterson
From:
Moorhead, MN
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Dennis Montgomery
From:
Western Washington
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Posted 20 Jan 2021 9:09 am
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| b0b wrote: |
Remember, Am7 = C6. On E9th, that's Bm7 = D6. Here's further translation:
| Tab: |
Bm7 / D6 on the E9th neck
pedalB kneeD
F#
D# -D
G# +A
E
B
G# +A
F#
E
D <-major root
B <-minor root |
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Got it.
D Major pentatonic = D E F# A B
B minor pentatonic = B D E F# A
In the same way the A minor scale is the relative minor to the C Major scale (they're modes: both contain the same notes but begin on a different scale tone), B minor pentatonic is the relative minor to D Major pentatonic. In our case, it's a matter of choosing which note/string to center your soloing around to imply the tonic.
Seems every few months I run into another amazing thing about E9
_________________
Hear my latest album, "Celestial" featuring a combination of Mullen SD12 and Synthesizers:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mhh6b_xXTx4&list=PLfXm8aXRTFz0x-Sxso0NWw493qAouK
Hear my album, "Armistice" featuring Fender 400 on every song:
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLfXm8aXRTFz2Pz_GXhvmjne7lPEtsplyW
Hear my Pedal Steel Only playlist featuring Mullen G2 SD12 on covers like Candyman, Wild Horses, Across the Universe & more...
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLfXm8aXRTFz2f0JOyiXpZyzNrvnJObliA |
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