Thoughts and ideas about angle of lap steel- shoulder pain

Stephen Schoenadel · From: Maryland, USA

I am hoping forum members will weigh in and give me their thoughts about an idea I am having and possible solutions and/or experiences with similar matters.

I play a Fender Stringmaster D8 standing up. Through the years i have had shoulder, back and wrist pain. I do not attribute it all to playing my instrument. I am looking for a more comfortable set up to reduce any strain on my body. I do not want to sit down to play.

I have concluded that having the guitar tilt downward, away from my body would be best.

To start I will give the example of Junior Brown whose steel seems to be about waist height and looks to be set at an angle of 45 - 60 degrees.
I have experimented with this with some makeshift contraptions in my home and it is comfortable for me. I know some might think it is a strange way to play. The only additional strain this causes is having to keep a good grip on your bar at all times- that's not a big deal for me.

My questions are: 1. Does anyone have experience with any thing like this?

2. Aside from Junior, do you know of any other players playing steel at this extreme angle?

3. Do you have any ideas for a stand or something that would work for this. ( if i shorten the front legs my guitar is not stable) I would like something very stable.

Thanks for taking the time to read this. I look forward to hearing your feedback and ideas.

Bill Hatcher · From: Atlanta Ga. USA

why would you NOT want to sit and play. that is very acceptable in the steel guitar realm.

Michael Butler · From: California, USA

ergonomics is the name of the game. with all of your back, should and wrist pain you may want to think about sitting. additionally, do stretching exercises prior to playing any type of guitar or bass.

play music!
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Stephen Schoenadel · From: Maryland, USA

I do sit in some situations. always when i am playing my PSG . But I am fronting a band where I sing, play electric guitar and play the stringmaster. It's high energy music at times and sitting down front and center seems... a little funny.

Bill Moore · From: Manchester, Michigan

I'd suggest doing daily exercise with weights. Building the strength in your arms and shoulders will help. I had some similar problems years ago, mostly pain in the shoulders, building strength helped a lot. All you need is some dumbbells, start with light ones, maybe 8-10 pounds. You only need to do 10-15 minutes a day.

Stephen Schoenadel · From: Maryland, USA

I appreciate the tips on health and self care. I really do. Thank you all.

Perhaps I should have omitted that fact as it is not my sole reason and I am more concerned about how to design a system to accommodate a steel held at the angle that i mentioned. As well as gain knowledge of other players who might play this way.

Bill Sinclair · From: Waynesboro, PA, USA

Stephen,

I just tried setting up my short scale Stringmaster on a heavy duty music stand and it wasn't too bad. You'd have to cut a few inches off the top of the stand back so you could get in close to the guitar. Don't know how much I'd trust it for a hard swingin' set though. Maybe used in conjunction with the guitar legs?

I expect that the better solution would be to adapt a Deluxe 34 stand with angled brackets. One problem you might encounter with that is the fact that you couldn't spin the threaded bracket rod very far into the stand before you hit the low part of the bracket against the body of the stand. I'm sure it could be worked out. I've got a Deluxe 34 stand (not for sale) if you want to stop by sometime and brainstorm.

Andy Volk · From: Boston, MA

Stephen, this might be helpful ...

https://www.hawaiiansteel.com/learning/injury_prev.php
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Stephen Schoenadel · From: Maryland, USA

Thanks Bill. I will call You.

Stephen Schoenadel · From: Maryland, USA

Thanks Andy. I got one of your books for Christmas! This is a good article and I have already started changing some habits. I don't think my discomfort comes from playing. I will pay heed to the information.

Have you ever seen anyone play at the angle I am talking about? other than Junior Brown or some dobro players?

David Knutson · From: Cowichan Valley, Canada

I hear you, Stephen. I am also a front singer while playing steel, and standing is really important for performance energy. I tilt my steel (single eight) forward enough that my wrists stay straight, but not nearly as much as Junior's rig. Like your experience, it feels like some stability is lost if I tilt too far. Mine is on a 3 leg Deluxe 34, so I'm sure a 4 leg stand would be better in that regard.

I do find it easier on my problematic left shoulder if I raise the steel up a little higher so I'm not leaning or hunching down toward it.
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Bob Watson · From: Champaign, Illinois, U.S.

A drummer I used to work with became a physical therapist and told me that he advises people about ergonomics in the workplace and at home all the time. He is very successful and has a great reputation with everyone I know who have used his services. He is one of those guys who's always thinking outside the box, so I don't know if this is part of the job description for physical therapists or if it is just an aspect of his job that he personally decided to pursue. Perhaps you could talk with some physical therapists in your area and see if any of them could help you figure this out.

Andy Volk · From: Boston, MA

Jerry Byrd tilted his guitar away from him when playing his double neck while standing.

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Fred Treece · From: California, USA

Notice in the photo that the master is bending from the waist, rather than the neck. If you have to stand while you play, this would be the recommended technique.

Pete Davis · From: Maine, USA

Great photo.
Notice that Mr Byrd is keeping his shoulder and elbow at 90 degrees with his forearm and wrist in straight. That is the ideal ergonomic posture.
Telegraphers were prone to "glass elbow" which would be labeled repetitive motion injury today. Setting up their work space to maintain that posture was the key to staying healthy in their profession.
Steel players have to move their wrists constantly, unlike telegraphers, but the principles are similar.

David Ellison · From: California, USA

For your wrists, you want to be sure they're not bent when playing. You want your hands and forearm to be a straight line. I used to play a Stringmaster, and always had it tilted out away from me for that reason. As an added bonus, it lets people see what you're doing.

For your shoulders, you want to be sure you're not extending your arms by reaching too far. Your upper arms should be down by your sides, not extended out. You want to be as close to the instrument as possible.

Peter Harris · From: South Australia, Australia

My unconventional 'steel' is a Telecaster sporting a custom Bigsby Palm Pedal with six levers...because I do not want to sit down to play, either...

...sadly though, it doesn't get much air-time these days with all the other stuff that occupies my life.

BUT...I would agree with all the points raised in the preceding three posts, as one has to be VERY conscious of the ergonomics at play here....if you move your upper arms out from your body, and bend your wrists back a lot, you can feel the way that affects your shoulders without having to stand behind the steel.. !

HTH

Peter
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Bob Stone · From: Gainesville, FL, USA

I advise you to visit a physical therapist. Try to find one that has experience working with musicians. Tell him or her that you want to bring in your instrument—and volume pedal, if you use one—so he or she can closely observe your body mechanics as you play. Let the therapist make recommendations based on his or her observations and training.

I did this, made some adjustments to my setup, and entered a physical therapy program.
It’s working out very well. A good professional can really help and it will pay off in both the short term and the rest of your playing life.

I wish I had done this years ago. The longer you put it off, the worse your problem gets and the harder it is to correct.

Bob Womack · From: Virginia, USA

Steve Howe has always set his rather high.

Bob
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