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Topic: Bb6 players? |
Sonny Jenkins
From:
Texas Masonic Retirement Center,,,Arlington Tx
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Posted 17 Dec 2020 10:14 am |
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| I know David W and Jr are Bb6 players,,,wondering how many others out there play this tuning. Especially interested in anyone playing Day set up (CBA vs ABC pedals) and how it corresponds with Bb6? |
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Ian Rae
From:
Redditch, England
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Posted 17 Dec 2020 11:32 am
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There is a definite advantage to the Day setup in a universal tuning, which has nothing to do with whether it's in B or B flat.
If I had my time again I might go for Bb, but it would be a normal B6/E9 tuned down a semitone, not the weird Anderson setup.
_________________
Make sleeping dogs tell the truth!
Homebuilt keyless U12 7x5, Excel keyless U12 8x8, Williams keyless U12 7x8, Telonics rack and 15" cabs |
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Sonny Jenkins
From:
Texas Masonic Retirement Center,,,Arlington Tx
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Posted 19 Dec 2020 6:15 am
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| I thought there were more Bb6 players,,,,??? |
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Ian Rae
From:
Redditch, England
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Posted 19 Dec 2020 7:24 am
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There are some, certainly. I'm interested to know who is inspired by Reece Anderson and who just uses a detuned version of a standard setup (as far as there is such a thing)
_________________
Make sleeping dogs tell the truth!
Homebuilt keyless U12 7x5, Excel keyless U12 8x8, Williams keyless U12 7x8, Telonics rack and 15" cabs |
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Don Crowl
From:
Medford, Oregon, USA
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Posted 19 Dec 2020 9:40 am
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| I played Bb six universal for several years and really loved it. I found the Day set up to be very handy using the third pedal in conjunction with some B-flat 6 positions. Not certain if I said the right but maybe you can read between the lines. |
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Pete Burak
From:
Portland, OR USA
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Posted 19 Dec 2020 9:58 am
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| Ian Rae wrote: |
| ...I'm interested to know who is inspired by Reece Anderson and who just uses a detuned version of a standard setup (as far as there is such a thing) |
Here in Portland Oregon there are two of us that are doing what you mention...
Christopher Woitach is playing the Reece Anderson Bb6th tuning. He is a great primarily Jazz style Steel player who performs at the Phoenix Steel Show and here in Portland, and has some of his playing posted in the Steel On The Web section, and YouTube and Facebook.
Myself, I started on Jeff Newman Universal E9/B6 Uni in '82, and now I am playing that tuning tuned down a half step to Eb9/Bb6. I tune the whole copedant down to Eb9/Bb6 so I can play in E9 and B6 at the first fret with the bar. I have some of my playing posted in the Steel On The Web section, also.
I have since changed the order of my top three strings to match the Bb6th tuning.
I lower strings 4 and 8 a half-tone to play in 6th mode.
Christopher raises strings 4 and 8 a half-tone to play in 9th mode.
When I lower strings 4 and 8 (or he raises strings 4 and 8 ), there is only one note different on our Universals, string 12.
Here is the link to Maurices Bb6th tuning:
https://b0b.com/wp/copedents/maurice-andersons-tunings/ |
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Sonny Jenkins
From:
Texas Masonic Retirement Center,,,Arlington Tx
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Posted 19 Dec 2020 12:27 pm
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| Does Christopher play Reese tuning same as posted in the copedent section |
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Ian Rae
From:
Redditch, England
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Posted 19 Dec 2020 3:01 pm
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Thank you, Pete, that's very illuminating.
I'm attracted to the idea of detuning what is in essence a Newman setup down to Bb, but I fear that the marginal benefit in voicing would be outweighed by the screwing up of everything I've learned so far! Not sure the band would have much patience during the transition 
_________________
Make sleeping dogs tell the truth!
Homebuilt keyless U12 7x5, Excel keyless U12 8x8, Williams keyless U12 7x8, Telonics rack and 15" cabs |
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Darrell Criswell
From:
Maryland, USA
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Posted 19 Dec 2020 5:13 pm
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| Does wanting to play in B-flat having anything to do with most brass instruments being tuned to B-flat and people who started out in music playing brass instruments feel more comfortable with this tuning? |
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Gary Newcomb
From:
AustinTexas, USA
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Posted 20 Dec 2020 12:13 am
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I tried it for a few shows and thought there was a huge difference tonally, like my rig sounded a lot less shrill especially when blending in larger bands
_________________
Sierra Session U12, Milkman 1/2, Goodrich Omni, Divine Noise Cables, BJS, Solid cosmic gold, baby 👶🻠|
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Ian Rae
From:
Redditch, England
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Posted 20 Dec 2020 5:19 pm
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Darrell, that's very perceptive but in my case it isn't true as I dislike the open strings anyway!
The B6 tuning gets the key of C away from the nut, and the attraction of Bb is actually the Eb9 side of things which would do the same for the key of E.
I'm not sure I'm brave enough right now. But then as it's going to be a while before we gig again I really could relearn 30 numbers if I put my mind to it. Tomorrow I'll bash through everything up a fret and see if it fries my brain.
_________________
Make sleeping dogs tell the truth!
Homebuilt keyless U12 7x5, Excel keyless U12 8x8, Williams keyless U12 7x8, Telonics rack and 15" cabs |
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Jeff Harbour
From:
Western Ohio, USA
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Posted 21 Dec 2020 5:07 am
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| Ian Rae wrote: |
| There are some, certainly. I'm interested to know who is inspired by Reece Anderson and who just uses a detuned version of a standard setup (as far as there is such a thing) |
I don't know what you mean by "standard setup"... But, I do play a D-10 with the back neck tuned down to Bb6 (with a C on top). My pedal setup is very non-standard though. Although it doesn't much resemble Reece's copedant at all, I did in fact develop it after learning from and conversing with Reece over email for several years. I feel like I absorbed his thought process and took it in my own direction. |
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Jeff Harbour
From:
Western Ohio, USA
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Posted 21 Dec 2020 5:14 am
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| Ian Rae wrote: |
| The B6 tuning gets the key of C away from the nut... |
This is the actual reason I stuck with Bb6. I had initially tried it when I was experimenting with a whole-step raise on a lever, and I wanted to ease string tension to avoid a break. To my surprise, a lot of heavily-used chords ended up on more comfortable frets.
Also, for me it helped to maintain all chords on even or odd frets as I have known them. I think tuning down only a half step would make me lose my place on everything! |
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Ian Rae
From:
Redditch, England
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Posted 21 Dec 2020 6:40 am
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I think what I mean by "standard" is when the eight pedals do the same as on a D10, but there are only 12 strings instead of 20; so Newman is "standard" by that measure.
Your odd/even observation is good. Because I have B6 geography firmly imprinted, maybe I should go down to A.
By next week I shall have a compelling reason to tune to G# 
_________________
Make sleeping dogs tell the truth!
Homebuilt keyless U12 7x5, Excel keyless U12 8x8, Williams keyless U12 7x8, Telonics rack and 15" cabs |
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Andrew Frost
From:
Toronto, Ontario
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Posted 30 Dec 2020 10:47 am
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Interesting thread!
I'm not a full-on uni player but I find this topic fascinating and the comments very informative.
Ergonomically, I'd think what makes the Bb6 approach such a unique bird is the string order on the top, as Pete described, coupled with the levering-in requirement to shift into 9th mode, by raising the major 3rds up a half tone.
I've been experimenting a whole lot this year (with no gigs happening). I've been exploring both of these properties of Bb6.
I believe Sonny referred to my set up as 'bare bones' in a related thread and I certainly agree. It is a very stripped down approach I'm exploring.
My current set up on S10 is B6 and I love it. The top strings are ordered the same as Bb6 universal. Strings 4 & 8 raise up on RKL to make the E9 sounds in the same Bb fashion. (4 & 8 also lower to D, which makes for some great voicings and ease of horizontal harmonic motion.)
In drafting up further developments & ideas for this tuning it has become really clear that Day set up would be ideal. The A pedal indeed combines efficiently with other "6th pedals" to trim the fat on the whole operation as Ian has alluded to.
Alas, I play Emmons.
For what it's worth, I'm finding this tuning to be very versatile and practical for my needs.
The right knee action is automatic now and the grips are becoming really familiar.
Happy year's end, all. 🌿
Andy |
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Junior Knight
From:
Eustace Texas..paddle faster..I hear Banjos...
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Posted 30 Dec 2020 1:30 pm
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As soon as my ...new to me...74 S-12 Msa gets here,
I will be a Bb6th player again!!
_________________
2006 Msa S-12 “milly” 8 & 5 1976 Msa D-10 Classic 8 & 6
. Peavey Nashville 1-12 Tommy Huff speaker cabs. Goodrich pedals & matchbro.Steeler Choice seats.. that is all..(for now) lol
www.msapedalsteels.com
texsteelman2@yahoo.com
Jagwire Strings
Facebook/ Junior Knight, Steel Guitar |
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Sonny Jenkins
From:
Texas Masonic Retirement Center,,,Arlington Tx
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Posted 30 Dec 2020 3:24 pm
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| Pete, I'm doing your tuning on this new MSA I got,,,man, I do like that a lot,,,that should have been the standard that Jeff used. I'm just wondering if I tuned to B6 instead of E9,,and raised the E instead of lowering them (since I stay in 6th mode much more than 9th),,would that work with this Jeff Newman (Day set up) tuning,,looks like it would be the same,,just wouldn't have all the options that Reece had. |
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Christopher Woitach
From:
Portland, Oregon, USA
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Posted 2 Jan 2021 1:59 pm
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Hey Sonny
Just saw this! My tuning is the last one Maurice used before he passed away - here it is
_________________
Christopher Woitach
cw@affmusic.com
www.affmusic.com |
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Christopher Woitach
From:
Portland, Oregon, USA
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Posted 2 Jan 2021 2:30 pm
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Sonny
I went to Bb6 after I’d played pretty much Newman U12 for a while. I got sick of lowering the E’s, since I play 95% or more jazz, so Pete Burak actually set my guitar up as a B6 for me. When I told Reece, and said to him I wanted a new MSA U12 but asked if it wouldn’t be better to have a 6th tuning as my open tuning, he said it was time for me to try Bb6, the copedent listed above. I’ve never looked back since 2013.. There’s only one thing I want, which is to raise my Bb’s to B, and to do that would require either a staggered knee lever or another vertical. Someday I’ll have Mitchell do one or the other (not sure which), but other than that it’s a perfect tuning for me.
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Christopher Woitach
cw@affmusic.com
www.affmusic.com |
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Junior Knight
From:
Eustace Texas..paddle faster..I hear Banjos...
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Posted 2 Jan 2021 3:27 pm
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And u play Bb great. Reese would be proud!
_________________
2006 Msa S-12 “milly” 8 & 5 1976 Msa D-10 Classic 8 & 6
. Peavey Nashville 1-12 Tommy Huff speaker cabs. Goodrich pedals & matchbro.Steeler Choice seats.. that is all..(for now) lol
www.msapedalsteels.com
texsteelman2@yahoo.com
Jagwire Strings
Facebook/ Junior Knight, Steel Guitar |
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Christopher Woitach
From:
Portland, Oregon, USA
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Posted 2 Jan 2021 10:24 pm
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Junior -
You just made my year - coming from you, that’s something to be proud of!
Thank you my friend! I bet our dear friend Maurice saw my smile all the way from heaven
_________________
Christopher Woitach
cw@affmusic.com
www.affmusic.com |
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J D Sauser
From:
Wellington, Florida
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Posted 4 Jan 2021 10:59 am WHY B-flat?
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B6th evidently came about from going Universal off E9th.
It carried all the "standard" changes of the BE-C6th which was a pedaled adaptation of Jerry Byrd's basic C6th (although JB's didn't have the IVM7 "F" bass, but later on rather the "8th"-pedal "C#" turning the Aminor7th into a Dominant 7th).
I have enjoyed a fairly long friendship with Maurice, and yet, now that he has left us so prematurely now several years ago, I often wonder WHY I did not ask so many questions I wished I could just call him up for like I used to.
ONE of them is: "WHY B-FLAT?"
I never asked because I played "universal" off E9th and most of my personal lessons with him were either E9th or C6th (after he went non-pedal).
Is it because he played often with horn sections... Bb is an "open" key to most "horn" players?
But then, what does it matter what you have at your nut... except for open strings (and that may be another reason, because coming out of non-pedal, Maurice like most early pedalists KNEW to involve a lot of open strings, and that became moreso evident when he went back to non-pedal in his later years)?
or is it just timbre.. the sound of thicker strings... wounds going a step further into what would otherwise be plain strings?
Did anybody HAVE that discussion with Maurice, do any of you who play Bb6th have their own EXPLANATION as to why?
ONE thing I will share, and that sways away from my core question:
I raised my bottom "B" ("C" on a C6th) to C# (D on C6th).
It opens the neck to a 4th non-pedal "open" cord... the relative minor to the 9th "F"-string (C6th)... creating the root to it: Dminor9th. A very common Jazz Guitar Major/minor relative inversion. It opens to IV-over-V chords and a world of "Chord-King-Sounds".
When I took non-pedal classes with Maurice, the center of the discussion was single notes (my weak point). Maurice played his 12 string he played on the "Up The Hill Without A Peddle" (before MSA created the SuperSlide), I played my 1940's Rickenbacher B10. I tuned "Jerry Byrd" style with both the bottom C and the C# (ADom7) and I believe Maurice's "C6th Chromatics" based of a "D" second string.
Maurice suggested I'd go 12 string to add bottom string and only briefly pointed to the bottom "D" and said "I would not be without that D". I did not pay too much attention to it as I was concentrated on the material we were supposed to work on and because I did not understand what he was doing with it. Today, I do... or at least I believe to be on the his heels trying to.
I must say, I am now at the point where I would give a pedal for not having to tune it back down again! But that's a different subject, I only mention it because I see that some fellow "Reecologists" seem to be using versions of his setup with the bottom string tuned up to a 2nd degree like he had it (the "8"-pedal doing only a 1/2 note lower now). Btw... it's takes the "flobbery" outta that string being strung up a bit more seriously and takes the bottom pull out of the "5"-pedal.
Thanks!... J-D
_________________
__________________________________________________________
Was it JFK who said: Ask Not What TAB Can Do For You - Rather Ask Yourself "What Would B.B. King Do?"
A Little Mental Health Warning:
Tablature KILLS SKILLS.
The uses of Tablature is addictive and has been linked to reduced musical fertility.
Those who produce Tablature did never use it.
I say it humorously, but I mean it. |
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David Wright
From:
Pilot Point ,Tx USA.
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Posted 5 Jan 2021 3:23 am
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J.D.
When Maurice came up with his no pedal tuning, he took 2 changes he used a lot on pedal steel. RNR lowering D not 1 tone & LKL Bb lowered half..those were his first 2 string..tune too..Maurices knowledge of cords was and still is unbelievable...Having studied with him since 1970 till his passing, I miss being able to call him and ask questions how and why to play things,
Why Bb.....Maurice once told me as a young man he went to listen to a steel player Bob White who was playing Bb...He was a fan of Bobs, so that's where is started... |
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J D Sauser
From:
Wellington, Florida
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Posted 5 Jan 2021 10:40 am
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Bob White, who was most well known for recording Hank Thompson's most iconic Capitol Records recordings, was one of my favorites too. I still love listening to him.
I did NOT know that he played Bb6.
Scotty told me he played C6th on the Bigsby... but then Maurice was close with Hank and would have known.
Knowing Maurice's analytic mind, I would have thought that there was a musical application reason for Bb6.
Thanks!... J-D.
_________________
__________________________________________________________
Was it JFK who said: Ask Not What TAB Can Do For You - Rather Ask Yourself "What Would B.B. King Do?"
A Little Mental Health Warning:
Tablature KILLS SKILLS.
The uses of Tablature is addictive and has been linked to reduced musical fertility.
Those who produce Tablature did never use it.
I say it humorously, but I mean it. |
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Junior Knight
From:
Eustace Texas..paddle faster..I hear Banjos...
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Posted 5 Jan 2021 12:55 pm
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My new to me 74 Msa..
_________________
2006 Msa S-12 “milly” 8 & 5 1976 Msa D-10 Classic 8 & 6
. Peavey Nashville 1-12 Tommy Huff speaker cabs. Goodrich pedals & matchbro.Steeler Choice seats.. that is all..(for now) lol
www.msapedalsteels.com
texsteelman2@yahoo.com
Jagwire Strings
Facebook/ Junior Knight, Steel Guitar |
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