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Topic: Beard Road O Phonic |
Paul Sutherland
From:
Placerville, California
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Posted 20 Jan 2019 10:53 pm |
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Will this out of production small dobro give me a reasonably credible dobro tone when amplified? I understand that it is less prone to feedback, although certainly not feedback free. I need more volume when amplified with less feedback.
I have a Fishman JD Aura pedal and could run the signal from there through a Summit Audio DI/preamp and then to a fairly high grade PA, with a QSC wedge for me, or in ear monitors. I don't want it to sound like a lap steel. I want a dobro tone. Could this give me that, but at higher stage volumes than are possible with a full sized regular dobro?
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It don't mean a thing if it ain't got that swing. |
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Howard Parker
From:
Maryland
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Posted 21 Jan 2019 6:55 am
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The "Roadie" has a unique voice acoustically, tending towards a biscuit sound. You might get something closer to a dobro sound with experimentation/outboard gear.
Frankly, I think what you seek can be had with a full sized instrument with the Fishman Nashville/Aura combo + suitable outboard gear.
h
_________________
Howard Parker
03\' Carter D-10
70\'s Dekley D-10
52\' Fender Custom
Many guitars by Paul Beard
Last edited by Howard Parker on 21 Jan 2019 7:11 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Bill McCloskey
From:
Nanuet, NY
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Posted 21 Jan 2019 7:06 am
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I had one. I never really liked it. For me it was kinda the worst of both worlds.
_________________
Rose D13 tuning: Cabinet by J.R. Rose with mechanics engineered by Darvin Willhoite.
Williams D10 9x9.
Mullen Pre-RP D10 8x5. |
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Mike Brenner
From:
Pennsylvania, USA
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Posted 21 Jan 2019 8:45 am
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I play a lot on a Roadaphonic and really love it, but it won't ever sound like a full-bodied dobro. I use a humbucker (it used to have a Lace Sensor I think)and disconnected the other mic, so it's now essentially a dobro-ish/lap steel hybrid w a smaller cone. The semi-hollow construction gives it a very unique sound, but not like a full-on dobro.
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Mark Eaton
From:
Sonoma County in The Great State Of Northern California
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Posted 21 Jan 2019 9:43 am
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Paul, I assume you still own your Applachian resonator equipped with the Fishman Nashville pickup.
I'm scratching my head trying to figure out what the deal is with the feedback issues in your rig. I'm sure plenty of us here don't have that problem including Howard and myself.
The "poster child" for the setup is of course Jerry Douglas himself and I have seen him play plugged in with the Fishman/Aura system many times going back to when it was still in the prototype stage in 2006 in San Francisco at Hardly Strictly Bluegrass. Different venues of all sizes and never any feedback. And Jerry can get loud.
Sometimes I use my setup with a Clinesmith resonator plugged into a Carvin acoustic amp but more often I go direct to the board after the Aura pedal.
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Mark |
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Paul Sutherland
From:
Placerville, California
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Posted 21 Jan 2019 12:55 pm
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My current set-up is the Appalachian reso with the Nashville PUP going into a JD pedal, then going to the Summit Audio Preamp/DI, then going to the main mixer board. My monitor mix comes back to be via either a QSC K8 or custom molded in ear monitors. I don't know how to get any better gear.
The feedback problems don't exit if the band is playing on a large stage where I can move away from the drums and the subwoofers. But on small stages I have no choice; I'm right next to both the drums and the subs. The dobro just starts feedin back uncontrollably. It's a lower frequency howl. I've tried adding a parametric equalizer to the signal chain so I could roll off the lows, and having the sound engineer roll off all the low frequencies. Either option helps some. But if the stage is too small I just can't use the dobro when the band plays too loud.
I'm sure Jerry Douglas is in a position to dictate to the band and sound engineers, so that he and everyone else can hear him well. I don't have that kind of horsepower.
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It don't mean a thing if it ain't got that swing. |
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Howard Parker
From:
Maryland
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Posted 21 Jan 2019 1:10 pm
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If feeding back and everyone(?) is using in-ears then it's feeding back through the front of house and the house mixer isn't equipped with sufficient tools to deal with it, like a feedback eliminator module/plug-in, etc.
I'm stating a generality because of course, I've never seen your sound system.
Good luck.
h |
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Mark Eaton
From:
Sonoma County in The Great State Of Northern California
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Posted 21 Jan 2019 1:15 pm
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You're right Paul - it doesn't sound like you can do any better as far as the signal chain. Top drawer gear.
And perhaps someone here who is above my pay grade has a good idea for you, but out of curiosity, have you ever tried calling Fishman customer service to see if they can give you any clues? I've owned a number of Fishman products over the years, there have been a handful of times where I needed questions answered and they have been pretty helpful.
No doubt Jerry D has plenty of horsepower in working with sound men, but as we all find out sooner or later, like musicians - not all sound men are "created equal." And unfortunately some are less helpful than others.
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Mark |
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Howard Parker
From:
Maryland
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Posted 21 Jan 2019 1:30 pm
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and just to double check that the trim pot on the side of the Aura is at 100%? If not you'll never get enough gain out of the box and you'll howl like a banshee.
h |
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Paul Sutherland
From:
Placerville, California
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Posted 21 Jan 2019 2:16 pm
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The trim pot is full up. I haven't called Fishman but that would probably be a good idea.
The worst venue is a place called the Wrangler. I have to set up right next to a wall and just a few feet from a corner, plus the ceiling is very low. That's inherently an acoustic bass trap, which really aggravates the problem. And then the drum kit is just a few feet away, as is the right side subwoofer. The bass can get overwhelming. The in-ears help but don't totally eliminate the bass dominance. If I don't wear in-ears the bass is painfully loud. It literally hurts.
I've told the guys in the band they need to turn down the bass in particular, and play at lower overall volumes, but nobody listens to me. I got them to switch my stage location so the bass guitar and lead guitar are on the other side of the stage. That helped significantly. But there are still some venues, like the Wrangler, where I might as well not even try to use the dobro.
I was hoping the Road O Phonic would be a reasonable option, but it sounds like it is not going to give much of a dobro sound.
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It don't mean a thing if it ain't got that swing. |
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Howard Parker
From:
Maryland
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Posted 21 Jan 2019 2:23 pm
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Yep,
I think you've identified the high points. It's possible to make anything feed back, given the environment. You could perhaps eliminate the issue with a significant gear investment..or change gigs.
But, I suspect you knew that.
Good luck.
h |
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Steve Lipsey
From:
Portland, Oregon, USA
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Posted 18 Oct 2020 12:14 pm
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Revisiting before I buy another Road-o-phonic....(anybody want to sell me one?). I'm back in a couple of alt-country bands who will play fairly loud on small stages and need dobro for some tunes (alternating with my Clinesmith Frypan)....
I played one (first generation) in a number of bands for some years - here's my take on it - help me figure out if I missed something!
Plusses:
-More than enough dobro tone to please an audience. Only other dobro players will know the difference, and that is all it is - a difference. As a contrast to the pedal steel I also was playing, the tone was fine, and quite distinct.
-Easier to transport, and less delicate, for those of us having to bring multiple instruments.
-No feedback issues - just set the blend more to the magnetic pickup as needed. Great to not have to even think about that.
-I actually played it through my steel amp. It was nice having easy setup (a little input foot switch) and complete control over the sound. Here in PDX the sound folks (if there even is one) are iffy in some of the venues...I've had some who were 100% in their phones and didn't even notice when the vocals disappeared, others who fell asleep, etc.
Minuses:
-My beautiful custom tricone has to stay home and wait for the pure acoustic gigs, or ones with low stage volume or a huge stage (rare; only my drummerless swing jazz band qualifies).
-I expect that at higher volume the longer-sustain tricone would be even more of a feedback problem than a singlecone (true or false?). My tricone has a Krivo unpotted magnetic Reso pickup on it, so an Aura wouldn't work anyway, even it it would help with feedback (no Fishman for tricones).
_________________
https://www.lostsailorspdx.com
Williams S10s, Milkman Pedal Steel Mini & "The Amp"
Ben Bonham Resos, 1954 Oahu Diana, 1936 Oahu Parlor |
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Douglas Schuch
From:
Valencia, Philippines
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Posted 18 Oct 2020 4:04 pm
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RE: Road-O-Phonic - there are basically two distinct versions. Earlier ones had, I think, one pickup on the cone, and the one at the end of the fretboard. They did not have onboard controls - they output via a stereo plug, with each pickup on a different channel - so you could mix them with a stereo pre-amp in line. They had a shorter (22.5"?) scale length.
Newer ones I think (don't know for certain - Howard?) use the new Fishman Biscuit Bridge pickup plus one on the deck, have onboard controls, and have a 25" scale - so good for dobro players.
The older models go pretty cheap. you can buy the biscuit bridge pickup from Fishman and retrofit if the other concerns don't bother you. The new ones are rather expensive.
As for the feedback on the Appalachian - I know far less than most of you guys, but wonder if it is just the stage volume? I know if my dog barks anywhere near my resos sitting in their guitar stands, you hear it resonating. Drums, loud bass stage volumes, etc could easily do that. I'd suggest trying to create the feedback in a soundcheck some day when you have time, then eliminate possible causes and see what happens i.e, have the drummer stop playing, then the bass, and see what happens.
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Bringing steel guitar to the bukid of Negros Oriental! |
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Steve Lipsey
From:
Portland, Oregon, USA
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Posted 21 Oct 2020 1:39 pm New New model Roadie...pictures and demo
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Just ordered a new roadie...Bear just started putting in a spider cone with Fishman pickup - all the old ones, even the new model old ones, had biscuit cones, which probably contributed to the tonal structure.... but even the biscuits sound quite real in the new solid-body models...they do have a Fishman pickup, where the old old ones had something stuck onto the cone...they also have a Lollar P90...closer to what JD plays now, he also has a Lollar on his Blackbeard (he uses the Gold Foil, not the P90)
There is only one spider-bridge Roadie out in the world at the moment, for sale at Guitar Sanctuary, the Hipshot makes it quite expensive...you can see the spider in there:
https://www.theguitarsanctuary.com/Beard-Road-O-Phonic-Resonator-Lap-Steel-p/19985.htm
Here's a video of a fairly new Roadie (still biscuit) to hear it acoustically and electrically..
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NciA4Ot5FQ0&feature=emb_logo
They list for $2,450, a big jump, especially from a used old model...but I think that getting the really real dobro sound, and the internal blending electronics, will be worth it...I'll be playing it a lot in 2 electric bands...
_________________
https://www.lostsailorspdx.com
Williams S10s, Milkman Pedal Steel Mini & "The Amp"
Ben Bonham Resos, 1954 Oahu Diana, 1936 Oahu Parlor |
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Steve Lipsey
From:
Portland, Oregon, USA
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Posted 28 Dec 2020 3:54 pm
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I'm loving my new Roadie...Fishman Nashville + Lollar Silver Foil (upgrade), which I modded to have a pickup switch like Anders Beck has on his Beard...stereo output, Nashville->Aura on one side, Lollar->effects on the other, can mix both.
Dobro sounds like a full size Beard through the amp (thank you, Aura...), and has the whole lap steel thing with the Lollar..I use a Saturnworks Summer/Combiner to mix the signals into the amp...
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https://www.lostsailorspdx.com
Williams S10s, Milkman Pedal Steel Mini & "The Amp"
Ben Bonham Resos, 1954 Oahu Diana, 1936 Oahu Parlor |
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Douglas Schuch
From:
Valencia, Philippines
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Posted 28 Dec 2020 10:41 pm
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Steve - several things:
First - congrats on getting such a sweet rig!
Second - Shame on you for not including sound samples!!!
Third - the combiner - I'm guessing you can then use the onboard controls for whichever pickup you want (or, presumably, both)?
I wonder if you can special-order it with the moon and star coverplate? For some reason they just seem to look really cool on these - maybe the size of the coverplate relative to the guitar body? The soup strainer coverplate just doesn't move me.
I've come close to buying one of the older models with the idea of retrofitting it with the new biscuit pickup, but I've got more toys than I know how to play already, so have wisely passed. But do please post sound samples. And I guess Fishman has or will be adding sound "images" for a biscuit bridge reso to their library - but then, that would mean adding the other aura pedal that you can upload different sound images to.... My my, ain't technology cool? Now if they will just beat that COVID bugaboo and let us out of our houses so we can play for an audience!
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Bringing steel guitar to the bukid of Negros Oriental! |
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K Maul
From:
Hadley, NY/Hobe Sound, FL
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Posted 29 Dec 2020 6:51 am
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Beard makes great instruments. I’ve been playing them for 20 years. I have two suggestions. How far to the right do you turn your image blend up? I know....everyone wants the full image so turns it full clockwise. I have found that to promote feedback so I keep mine at 50-60%. It makes a huge difference. If I have further problems I dial it back to 40-60% image/dry ratio. It still sounds like a dobro and in any case is preferable to feedback! I also will kill NOT to be standing next to the bass player!
Failing that, the Fluger/Marrs RGS dobro simulator is an option. It was designed specifically to deal with stadium level bands. Too bad Marv isn’t making them now, but you might be able to find one. https://www.gorbysmusic.com/products/Marrs-Fluger-8-String-Dobro-Steel-Previously-Owned-1312.html
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KEVIN MAUL: Airline, Beard, Clinesmith, Danelectro, Evans, Fender, GFI, Gibson, Hilton, Ibanez, Justice, K+K, Live Strings, MOYO, National, Oahu, Peterson, Quilter, Rickenbacher, Sho~Bud, Supro, TC, Ultimate, VHT, Williams, X-otic, Yamaha, ZKing. |
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Steve Lipsey
From:
Portland, Oregon, USA
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Posted 29 Dec 2020 1:19 pm
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Sound sample - there's a good one on the guitar Sanctuary site, where they have in stock a new roadie with hipshot (quite pricey!). It is a biscuit, so the YouTube will show just what you want. The spider version (what I have), has a lot more of that sort of typical nasal dobro overtone, and the Aura fills it in to make it sound like a full-size spider Reso.
Here it is:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NciA4Ot5FQ0&feature=emb_logo
The active combiner mixes the stereo signals with no loss or distortion. I wired the pickup switch just like on any electric guitar, here it does Fishman/Both/Lollar (had to modify the switch to on/off/on to work with the Powerchip). I removed the Lollar tone control to put the switch there...the tone control didn't seem to do anything useful (pickup in neck position, is already pretty mellow).
Cover plate - it is a slightly smaller cone (9.5") and I looked around a bit but couldn't find any more interesting cover plates in that size...I didn't think to ask Beard about it though,...and I didn't notice the nice plate Mike Brenner has on his (see post above), that would have been pretty!
The new roadie with the Powerchip active electronics allows running in stereo or mono with any blend of pickups, and allows trimming to get the pickups to equal levels - the old one would default to 100% magnetic when in mono...
Like Mike Witcher and Jerry Douglas, I keep blend at 100% and use Mic 4 on the Aura. With the stereo Roadie, I can mix in a signal from the Lollar and cut back the Aura signal with the controls on the instrument, to deal with feedback. (also can cut the blend on the Aura itself if I want more Fishman but less Aura).
_________________
https://www.lostsailorspdx.com
Williams S10s, Milkman Pedal Steel Mini & "The Amp"
Ben Bonham Resos, 1954 Oahu Diana, 1936 Oahu Parlor |
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K Maul
From:
Hadley, NY/Hobe Sound, FL
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Posted 30 Dec 2020 5:58 am
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Paul Beard recently told me that they went back to the spider resonator on the newest models. The biscuit ultimately proved unsatisfying, I guess.
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KEVIN MAUL: Airline, Beard, Clinesmith, Danelectro, Evans, Fender, GFI, Gibson, Hilton, Ibanez, Justice, K+K, Live Strings, MOYO, National, Oahu, Peterson, Quilter, Rickenbacher, Sho~Bud, Supro, TC, Ultimate, VHT, Williams, X-otic, Yamaha, ZKing. |
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Steve Lipsey
From:
Portland, Oregon, USA
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Posted 30 Dec 2020 10:56 am
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Well...the Aura makes a huge difference to getting the true sound of an acoustic full-size instrument...I guess they didn't see putting in the effort with Fishman and a player (who?) to do the mic samples for a biscuit...
_________________
https://www.lostsailorspdx.com
Williams S10s, Milkman Pedal Steel Mini & "The Amp"
Ben Bonham Resos, 1954 Oahu Diana, 1936 Oahu Parlor |
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Steve Lipsey
From:
Portland, Oregon, USA
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Posted 11 Oct 2021 1:27 pm
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Well...I loved my Roadie, but just upgraded considerably...the Twins have arrived...the CooderNator and ResoBorn!!! they do it all...
Here's more if you are curious...
https://bb.steelguitarforum.com/viewtopic.php?p=3043666#3043666
_________________
https://www.lostsailorspdx.com
Williams S10s, Milkman Pedal Steel Mini & "The Amp"
Ben Bonham Resos, 1954 Oahu Diana, 1936 Oahu Parlor
Last edited by Steve Lipsey on 13 Oct 2021 9:36 am; edited 2 times in total |
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Martin Lindsay
From:
Brevard, NC
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Posted 11 Oct 2021 7:14 pm
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Good to see that there are folks making their own. Seems a great DIY project with lots of opportunity for a chambered design for more acoustic contribution from the cone.
Looking at a baritone uke body shape for a great template.
Any tips appreciated. |
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