Thoughts on learning on 8 string pedal before going to 10

John Watson · From: Ontario, Canada

Hello
For a first time pedal steeler are there any thoughts on starting with 8 string before 10. Seems to me that once you're comfortable with 8 and using levers/pedals etc. - you have some common ground and then just need to work on integrating the last two instead of getting lost with 10 right away? Any feedback appreciated. Question

Andy Henriksen · From: Michigan, USA

I'm mostly a noob, but usually beginners will be focusing on 8 of the 10 strings on a standard E9 10 string anyway. The two reentrant strings serve a bit of a different role than the other 8 strings. But they are together at the far side of the fretboard, and are out of the way, and can largely be ignored until you are ready to use them.

Unless you have an 8 string available at a really good price, I'd just go for a 10 string. There's lots of things with this instrument that might cause you to "get lost" but the 2 extra strings isn't one of them, in my opinion.

Jack Hanson · From: San Luis Valley, USA

Erv Niehaus · From: Litchfield, MN, USA

Go for a 10 string, you can always take off a couple of strings. Very Happy

Erv

Scott Denniston · From: Hahns Peak, Colorado, USA

I'd say it'd be easiest to learn the 10 first if that's what you want to play. For one thing there are triads going up the strings that are different inversions of the same chord(the notes are just flipflopped around) that are easiest to learn together like a set. It would really just be easier to start out orientating to the 10 strings from the start. Two more strings doesn't make it harder but reorientation later might.

J Fletcher · From: London,Ont,Canada

I agree , 10 strings , on the best guitar you can afford , with some good instruction. Jerry

Doug Beaumier · From: Northampton, MA

+1 all the above. 10 strings. If you buy an 8-string you will soon discover that you're missing a big part of the sound that drew you to the pedal steel guitar. And you won't be able to play a lot of the E9 tablature that's on the market.
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richard burton · From: Britain

An 8 stringer will likely have wider string spacing than a 10, which would be another thing to get used to when you get a 10, so I would say get a 10 from the start

Ken Pippus · From: Langford, BC, Canada

And once you own an eight string, the next adventure will be trying to disown it. Not much demand.

Andrew Goulet · Posted 18 Dec 2020 6:31 pm

I loved the 8-string Fender I started on, but I wouldn't recommend it as a way of making learning easier. I actually have to go back and relearn some basics now that I have 10 strings (well, 12, but the bottom 2 aren't relevant here).

I'd say the useful reasons for starting on 8 strings (as mentioned above) are spacing, tone (Fender?), and budget. Those top two re-entrant strings aren't hard to use for basic melody, and getting your right hand used to grabbing them from the start is a good idea.
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Dennis Montgomery · From: Western Washington

Back in 2015 I bought a Fender 400 without really understanding the limitations of it compared to a 10 (or 12 string). Three years later I bought my Mullen 12 string. Was it a mistake to buy an 8 string first? For me, no because I wasn't after country licks or that style. I mostly play 70's style prog rock. I still use my Fender 400 a lot, especially for soloing...nothing rips through a mix like that late 60's Jaguar pickup Winking

That said, I think it really depends on what you want to get out of learning pedal steel. If you're influenced by 10 string players, you'd be doing yourself a big disservice by starting on an 8 string. You won't be happy once you realize the limitations in strings and knee levers. I recommend you just bite the bullet and go for the best 10 (or even 12) string you can afford straight away.

Like Erv said, buy a 10 and if you want to play an 8 you can always take a couple off Winking

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Bobby D. Jones · From: West Virginia, USA

I would suggest 10 string from the beginning.
From the first day you sit down at a steel guitar you start to build muscle memory. Picking certain strings, or grips of strings, Strings 3-1-4 is a phrase, Strings 10-8-6 grip to use. You need to learn the position of all 10 strings, Either pick the string or move over the string.

For years I played 10 string, Dec. 2017 I went to 12 string. Those 2 extra strings took a couple of months of hard work to get comfortable with the wider neck. That was like lost time changing guitars.
Good Luck and Happy Steelin.

Ken Byng · From: Southampton, England

I started out on a D8 pedal steel. I should have gone straight for a D10. Rolling Eyes

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Travis Wilson · From: Johnson City, TX

Been there, don’t waste your time and money. Just invest in a 10 string 3x4 from the get go. That’s bare minimum and will last you years.

Bob Carlucci · From: Candor, New York, USA

10 string in a standard E9 tuning,,

Everything written or recorded in the last 50 or more years concerning pedal steel instruction is based on 10 string pedal steel guitars with conventional E9 or C6 tunings and more or less conventional copedents[pedal/lever setup].

Start on an 8 string and you will have to adjust to 2 more strings anyway at some point.. MUCH better to start with what everyone else is playing.

After a time, when you have started to get proficient at 10 string, perhaps you can get an 8 string.. The second you do however, you will feel limited compared to your 10 string.

I know this from personal experience... bob
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Travis Wilson · From: Johnson City, TX

Been there, don’t waste your time and money.

Dave Zirbel · From: Sebastopol, CA USA

As much as I love 8 string pedal steels, I would say go with 10 if that is eventually the goal anyway.
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Richard Alderson · From: Illinois, USA

Most folks who did originally learn on an 8 string pedal steel was because of 2 reasons. First, at one time, roughly before 1962, 8 strings was predominant; and there were less 10 string instruments than 8 string ones; the tuning was just evolving to include the two chromatic strings. The second reason is that in more recent years someone who could not afford a 10 string guitar, such as myself, could get an 8 string guitar for 500 bucks, instead of $1,500 or more for a full 10 string. I still have my 8 string instrument, its a beautiful lacquer guitar that I use for c6th practice. Its also big and heavy like a rock, but that's a story for another day. So speaking from experience, if you can afford it, get a 10 string instrument. If you only have access to an 8 string guitar there are lots of things that can be learned on the 8 string instrument, but you will be delaying your progress until you can get a 10 string guitar with 3 pedals and 4 knee levers.
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Peter Leavenworth · From: Madbury, New Hampshire, USA

My first PS was an early '70s Shobud Maverick 10-string but a couple years later I traded it for a mid-60s Shobud D-8.
There was no way I could have afforded any playable D-10 at age 22 and I was thrilled to have a the C6 tuning available. As folks have pointed out, when you're starting, the lower two strings aren't as critical to getting a feel for the other 8. Of course I was later able to get an Emmons D-10 (only by trading carpentry work) which I still have and the switch was an easy adjustment; but I sympathize with anyone interested in learning PS that cannot afford, or is hesitant to pay for, the optimum set-up to start with.
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David Ball · From: North Carolina High Country

John Watson · From: Ontario, Canada

Thanks everyone for the responses, really helpful. Not much of a debate - seems the consensus is to go straight to 10 string. As Erv noted - can always take off 2 if needed. Tighter string spacing sounds like a bit of a challenge though. Does anyone make a 10 string pedal steel with wider spacing? Happy Holidays - hope you can steel some time for guitar!

scott murray · From: Asheville, NC

I think Sho-Bud string spacing is slightly wider than some other guitars but I don't think it's really an issue.
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b0b · From: Cloverdale, CA, USA

Good luck finding an 8-string pedal steel with modern capabilities. I had to have one custom made.
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Dave Mudgett · From: Central Pennsylvania and Gallatin, Tennessee

If your ultimate goal is to play 10-string E9 tuning, and play the kind of stuff that people play on that type of instrument, then I don't think an 8-string is going to make that task easier. As pretty much everybody has said, it will just take extra time to adjust to the various facets of a 10-string when you do get one - the extra strings, potentially narrower string spacing, and so on.

However, there are many considerations to how to start playing pedal steel. My opinion is that the most important issue is to have a solid, trouble-free pedal steel that fits you ergonomically, sounds good, has mechanics that are solid, stable, and return to pitch without driving you crazy, and which fits in your budget.

So if my assumptions about you are all true and money is no object - you have $1500-3000 to spend on a pedal steel - then I would suggest getting a good, solid and relatively modern 10-string E9 professional-grade pedal steel with at least 3 pedals and 4-5 knee levers.

However, that is a lot of assumptions. And I don't think that starting out on an 8-string is that much of a limitation to a beginning steel player. Most new players focus for some time on bar control, picking, blocking (muting), and smoothly flowing from fret to fret using the unpedaled strings and the A and B pedals, and perhaps the E=>Eb lever, on strings 3-6, 8, 10, and perhaps 7.

I had an 8-string Emmons with 4 pedals and no levers at one point. I set up the normal E9 strings with strings 1 and 9 omitted, put the F-lever on pedal 1, A and B pedals on pedals 2 & 3, and the E-lever combined with string 2 (in my case string 1) half-tone lower on pedal 4. It worked fine. Yes there were limitations. But I would have never noticed any of them for the first couple of years. And I did have one of the 'chromatic' strings.

But b0b is right - it's hard to find a modern, solid 8-string guitar. And you can just order, for example, a Justice Jr 2-raise, 1-lower all-pull, 10-string with A&B pedals and one lever for a grand, and $150/change for more changes. With what people seem to be getting for old Fender 400s these days, I can't see the point unless you're specifically looking for that sound. I love that sound, BTW, and will not part with my Fender 800 (10-string) with just 6 pedals and no levers. I think I've decided to leave it alone and set it up as a stand-up pedal steel. Bob Carlucci set it up pretty much like my 8-string Emmons but with 2 additional changes, and I have everything I really need on the 6 pedals, and levers are really not an issue for a stand-up pedal steel.

Lots of things to think about, but it's not really that tough a choice once you figure out what your priorities are.

BTW, I guess 8-strings do have some limitations, but I think a lot of them are in the head. Listen to this and then tell me how limited a Fender 400 with 8 strings is. Thats Buddy Emmons, with Sneaky Pete on his 8-string Fender 400, with Buddy taking the first section with Pete arpeggiating the backup, Pete taking the second section with Buddy backing, and then flipping back to to finish. Yeah, I know he had more than the stock 6 pedals and a different tuning, but still.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T0Zgd6Ctz1Q

J Fletcher · From: London,Ont,Canada

Widest string spacing I have seen would be a Fender Artist series made by Sho-Bud in the 70's . Pretty good guitars too . I had D10 for a while . Nice.

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