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Topic: Perfectionism |
Curt Trisko
From:
St. Paul, Minnesota, USA
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Posted 11 Dec 2020 7:05 pm |
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What's a good attitude to get to regarding perfectionism in steel playing?
I am nowhere near perfection. However, I can get close enough sometimes where I find myself falling into that trap. I know I'm falling into that trap when I ruminate on how technically well I am playing a part and stop asking myself if I could be playing something else entirely. In other words, tunnel-vision.
Like all things in life, I feel that what makes something especially effective is not how perfect it is. Instead, it's that it can serve it's purpose while adding a little something extra that is pleasantly unexpected.
Steel guitar really challenges me in that regard because phrasing is so important and so unavoidable. Volume pedal usage in phrasing can be very difficult to get perfect... but perfect doesn't always matter and happy accidents can end up being really effective. |
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J Fletcher
From:
London,Ont,Canada
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Posted 12 Dec 2020 1:56 pm
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Me , I can't imagine ever being able to play perfect , or even what might be called excellent , but I inch it along a bit every day , and then one day I will run out of time .
But I do enjoy the journey...Jerry |
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Ian Rae
From:
Redditch, England
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Posted 12 Dec 2020 4:39 pm
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Brahms told his composition students that what they wrote didn't have to be beautiful, but it did have to be perfect.
When it comes to performance, I'm not sure what perfection is but I do aim for consistency. Reliability is what gets you hired.
The definition of perfectionism that I have is not a pursuit of perfection itself, but a believe that you are capable of more than you actually are.
_________________
Make sleeping dogs tell the truth!
Homebuilt keyless U12 7x5, Excel keyless U12 8x8, Williams keyless U12 7x8, Telonics rack and 15" cabs |
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Paul Sutherland
From:
Placerville, California
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Posted 12 Dec 2020 5:44 pm
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I think of "perfectionism" as a curse that stands in the way of artistic creativity. It can drive you, and everyone around you, crazy.
However, striving to play something well is usually worth the effort, particularly when practicing. Just don't go overboard.
_________________
It don't mean a thing if it ain't got that swing. |
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Bob Womack
From:
Virginia, USA
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Posted 12 Dec 2020 6:42 pm
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Here's a great quote: “To achieve great things, two things are needed: a plan and not quite enough time.†- Leonard Bernstein
I work in the studio as a recording engineer and session musician. Deadlines have a funny way of putting paid to perfectionism. I worked with a particular live show that had a saying regarding perfection: "It's better than good - it's DONE." On other forums I deal with guys who spend weeks at home recording and re-recording a single song, shifting mics and trying to find perfection. Living under deadlines, either for on-time delivery or because of budget, has a way of quickly reining in perfectionism while forcing you to bring your A-game.
Bob
_________________
"It is said, 'Go not to the elves for counsel for they will say both no and yes.' "
Frodo Baggins to Gildor Inglorion, The Fellowship of the Ring
THE MUSICIAN'S ROOM (My Little Website) |
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Ian Rae
From:
Redditch, England
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Posted 13 Dec 2020 6:53 am
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I agree with both Paul and Bob - there is a balance to be struck, and deadlines are a blessing not a curse.
_________________
Make sleeping dogs tell the truth!
Homebuilt keyless U12 7x5, Excel keyless U12 8x8, Williams keyless U12 7x8, Telonics rack and 15" cabs |
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Andrew Frost
From:
Toronto, Ontario
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Posted 16 Dec 2020 11:37 am
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Man, that Bernstein quote is priceless. I love it!
One of the "big B" composers apparently said that to make mistakes is natural, but to play without passion is unforgivable. I think it was the one that went deaf... |
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Curt Trisko
From:
St. Paul, Minnesota, USA
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Posted 17 Dec 2020 7:11 am
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There are two things I am learning more and more when I feel perfectionism creeping in:
1) At a certain point, the quest for perfection skews your vision so much that you have to walk away to regain perspective. Sometimes that means working on something else and coming back to it. Sometimes that means accepting your personal limitations and leaving it as is. The latter can actually be really good because it keeps you humble while giving a hunger to be better.
2) You have to be able to judge the creative potential of project well enough to understand when 'perfect' is a waste of time and energy that should be spent elsewhere.
Paul's response above is the line of thinking I had when I made the original post. I'm not sure how I feel about all the responses that put perfectionism on a pedestal as an ideal - even if an unattainable one.  |
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Ron Funk
From:
Ballwin, Missouri
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Posted 17 Dec 2020 5:07 pm
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Everyone considers great works of art "perfect,"
yet the Artist stepped away,
knowing he could do no better. |
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Franklin
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Posted 18 Dec 2020 5:59 am
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There are always imperfections...That is human nature. I accept that man at his best is flawed.
So imagine you want a suit that feels fantastic to your personal physicality. Imagine that new suit being put together by someone saying they never strive for perfection. They just let it happen and hope for the best...For my money I will certainly not use a tailor with that mindset. How accomplished we are with every skillset we need as musicians will depend on the mindset we choose as we practice for our journey.
Every great musician I know strives for perfection each time they perform...Human nature allows the imperfections to come in which is why we have to work extra hard towards perfecting ourselves as players, keeping the blocking, emotional skills, hands limber and laser accurate.
For me after the notes and chords are learned for a phrase - then the "perfection" part of the process begins. At practice time I record myself and constantly ask myself is the Tone, Touch, Emotion, Interpretation (vibrato, pedal squeezes, dynamics, phrasing and timing) as good as it "Should" be according to my tastes. I also want to memorize all of those variables..Dissecting ideas is also a key way to discover who we are as musicians. The perfection process is where the individualism reward comes in...Those players have taught themselves how to learn all aspects of playing music.
Merry Christmas,
Paul |
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Curt Trisko
From:
St. Paul, Minnesota, USA
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Posted 18 Dec 2020 12:27 pm
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| Franklin wrote: |
| For me after the notes and chords are learned for a phrase - then the "perfection" part of the process begins. At practice time I record myself and constantly ask myself is the Tone, Touch, Emotion, Interpretation (vibrato, pedal squeezes, dynamics, phrasing and timing) as good as it "Should" be according to my tastes. I also want to memorize all of those variables..Dissecting ideas is also a key way to discover who we are as musicians. The perfection process is where the individualism reward comes in...Those players have taught themselves how to learn all aspects of playing music. |
That's the 'perfect' response that I was hoping for.  We learn so much about ourselves when strive for both intense focus and comprehensiveness. How do you deal with 'creeping elegance'... where the more you focus on a part or a phrase, the more you lose perspective on its importance and what the listener perceives?
I've felt shame a few times when I'll record something, notice imperfections after the fact, and then fall into the trap of using digital tools to make increasingly small adjustments. Other people may not be able to hear some of the manipulations, but it robs the music of its joy and usually I would have saved time by just going back, re-recording it as best as I can, and then leaving it at that. |
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Daniel Stinnett
From:
Arizona, USA
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Posted 19 Dec 2020 11:16 am
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IMHO the time for perfectionism is in my practice sessions. I really believe that I will play like I practice.
Having said that, I recognize that mistakes can and will happen. However, sometimes that leads to lucky accidents that open up whole new ideas.
.02 |
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George Kimery
From:
Limestone, TN, USA
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Posted 19 Dec 2020 1:19 pm Perfectionism
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Strive for excellence instead of perfection. A perfection attitude will hold you back. I would rather be able to play 10 songs excellent than one song perfect. Nobody is going to notice the difference except me.
Last edited by George Kimery on 26 Dec 2020 4:58 am; edited 1 time in total |
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J D Sauser
From:
Wellington, Florida
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Posted 25 Dec 2020 7:20 pm
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I WAS so locked into "perfectionism" and absolute explainable "correctness" for soo many years.
There were things I heard and tried to play, and today, I think I played it right... but for the lack of explainability I disregarded my interpretation of what I tried to do.
I dropped the Steel 20 years ago and went to rhythm guitar playing... mostly Jazz/Swing. As a rhythm player, you are expected to lay a solid predictable foundation and NOT to play "Salvador Dali"... THAT's for soloist do do.
BUT when I got into Gypsy Jazz... Ha!.... even back-up defies "explainablilty".
It's all about "what sounds right", "cool", "HOT" or even purposefully WICKED!
I asked too many times "WHY", "WHAT", "HOW SO". All I got even from some of the worlds greatest would go much beyond a "fft"... "buhh", "bah", "erm.... well, uh... I dunno, but it sound GREAT!".
At the end of the day, you "put water into your wine"... and enjoy freedom.
I just very recently went back to steel... on an S12U... (I played Universal before)... but this time... I just play... hit big chords and just find sounds I like and feel are right... no questions asked. "F' it!"... and I smirk at the results.
It was hard for me to "let go"... but you MUST.
_________________
__________________________________________________________
Was it JFK who said: Ask Not What TAB Can Do For You - Rather Ask Yourself "What Would B.B. King Do?"
A Little Mental Health Warning:
Tablature KILLS SKILLS.
The uses of Tablature is addictive and has been linked to reduced musical fertility.
Those who produce Tablature did never use it.
I say it humorously, but I mean it. |
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John Macy
From:
Rockport TX/Denver CO
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Posted 26 Dec 2020 5:30 am
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As one of my producer and philosophical hero’s, Cowboy Jack Clement used to say “Perfect equates to s***â€. YMMV.
_________________
John Macy
Rockport, TX
Engineer/Producer/Steel Guitar |
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Barry Anderson
From:
Nevada City, California, USA
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Posted 29 Dec 2020 8:24 am
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| I can add little to this that hasn't already been said, outside of this, from Robbie Basho: "Better to drink wine from the hands than water from a pretty cup; of course the ultimate is wine from a pretty cup." |
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Dom Franco
From:
Beaverton, OR, 97007
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Posted 29 Dec 2020 10:23 am
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Curt said:
| Quote: |
| I've felt shame a few times when I'll record something, notice imperfections after the fact, and then fall into the trap of using digital tools to make increasingly small adjustments. Other people may not be able to hear some of the manipulations, but it robs the music of its joy and usually I would have saved time by just going back, re-recording it as best as I can, and then leaving it at that. |
Recording really reflects the truth of where we are at in our musical journey. Before I was able to purchase a multi-track with punch-in capability, I think I was a much better player.
I am currently revisiting and documenting films and audio recordings of a band I was in 40+ years ago. The live recordings are great, and I don't hear many mistakes in my steel parts. We were rehearsing everyday and the peer pressure to play consistent parts and harmonize with the other guitarist made me play my best.
Now with digital cut and paste, unlimited tracks, etc. I often cheat to obtain "Perfection" (of course nothing is perfect and recording this way can kill the creativity of improvisation) All that to say I agree with your above quote Curt.
_________________
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCYG9cvwCPKuXpGofziPNieA/feed?activity_view=3 |
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Ricky Davis
From:
Bertram, Texas USA
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Posted 29 Dec 2020 12:03 pm
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| Quote: |
There are always imperfections...That is human nature. I accept that man at his best is flawed.
So imagine you want a suit that feels fantastic to your personal physicality. Imagine that new suit being put together by someone saying they never strive for perfection. They just let it happen and hope for the best...For my money I will certainly not use a tailor with that mindset. How accomplished we are with every skillset we need as musicians will depend on the mindset we choose as we practice for our journey.
Every great musician I know strives for perfection each time they perform...Human nature allows the imperfections to come in which is why we have to work extra hard towards perfecting ourselves as players, keeping the blocking, emotional skills, hands limber and laser accurate.
For me after the notes and chords are learned for a phrase - then the "perfection" part of the process begins. At practice time I record myself and constantly ask myself is the Tone, Touch, Emotion, Interpretation (vibrato, pedal squeezes, dynamics, phrasing and timing) as good as it "Should" be according to my tastes. I also want to memorize all of those variables..Dissecting ideas is also a key way to discover who we are as musicians. The perfection process is where the individualism reward comes in...Those players have taught themselves how to learn all aspects of playing music.
Merry Christmas,
Paul |
That is so well said and if you read it a couple times; you can tell that Paul is comparing his progress to HIS SELF...
That is so important. If you get caught getting down on your self playing not near Perfect or wish you could play more Perfect; if those mind thoughts are "in Comparison" to anyone other than YOUR OWN SELF....that is when you will have a hard time Progressing and learning; as Progression and Knowledge only comes to an OPEN Clear mind; meaning OPEN to play in comparison on ONLY YOUR SELF.
I've been a Teacher my whole adult life. I was an Elite Gymnastics Coach all through the 80's and had a gymnast on the 1988 Olympic Team(I played Steel guitar as a hobby during those times) and I had many many successful gymnast; all with ONE THING IN COMMON.....they could work out; perform; Compete; and progress....etc ONLY seeing their self in their mind; If they let anything else in; especially "Comparisons"...there could easily be a horrific crash...and none of my kids every got hurt with me coaching them. Yes that is a little out of the "MUSIC Theme"...but Same outcome if you get my drift.
Ricky
_________________
Ricky Davis
Email Ricky: sshawaiian2362@gmail.com |
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Curt Trisko
From:
St. Paul, Minnesota, USA
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Posted 29 Dec 2020 12:39 pm
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| Ricky Davis wrote: |
That is so well said and if you read it a couple times; you can tell that Paul is comparing his progress to HIS SELF...
That is so important. If you get caught getting down on your self playing not near Perfect or wish you could play more Perfect; if those mind thoughts are "in Comparison" to anyone other than YOUR OWN SELF....that is when you will have a hard time Progressing and learning; as Progression and Knowledge only comes to an OPEN Clear mind; meaning OPEN to play in comparison on ONLY YOUR SELF.
I've been a Teacher my whole adult life. I was an Elite Gymnastics Coach all through the 80's and had a gymnast on the 1988 Olympic Team(I played Steel guitar as a hobby during those times) and I had many many successful gymnast; all with ONE THING IN COMMON.....they could work out; perform; Compete; and progress....etc ONLY seeing their self in their mind; If they let anything else in; especially "Comparisons"...there could easily be a horrific crash...and none of my kids every got hurt with me coaching them. Yes that is a little out of the "MUSIC Theme"...but Same outcome if you get my drift.
Ricky |
Just like one of my favorite song lyrics: "It's Ali v. Clay / Both pummeling away / A champ always fights themself" There's some nice steel on that song too. |
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