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Topic: Modified D13 Copedent |
Andrew Goulet
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Posted 20 Nov 2020 11:19 am |
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Hi all,
What do you think of this copedent? It's based on Johnny Cox's D13 tuning, with the restriction of a single raise or lower for each string. I played a 6/9 tuning similar to this on an 8-string Fender for the better part of a decade, and it served me well.
You'll notice that I've left out P3 (the C pedal). I've never really liked that pedal (for various reasons). On the Fender, I had it set up to only pull the high root to a 9th, like Mooney. With that and a quick B pedal, it was a Waylon machine. But it was a bit of a one-trick pony in my hands, and that pony is tired.
Could you give me some opinions on alternatives for P3? I've been searching the Forum to avoid duplicating this request, but there's alot of "C pedal" talk to read through. At one point I had a pedal that raised my 6th to a b7th; that was cool for more 7th chords, as well as a B-pedal-type 4th tone lick with two feet (AB on the left, C on the right). However, I think there's probably a more versatile and imaginative option out there. I don't know anything about the C6 pedal copedent; if there's a pedal that is the most important, perhaps I should add that one.
For reference, I play (mostly) in a folk, rock, and country-rock setting. I won't be hurt by having a non-standard tuning or missing some standard E9 changes.
Thank you! |
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Joel Jackson
From:
Detroit
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Posted 21 Nov 2020 6:51 am
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| What is it you don't like about the traditional C pedal? Knowing that would make it easier to come up with some alternatives. |
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Fred Treece
From:
California, USA
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Posted 21 Nov 2020 9:37 am
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| How about string 5 to Bb? Seems a little weird, but it gives you a whole tone run on the top 5 strings, plus a iv-I change on strings 4-5-7 with P2. Who knows what else. That leaves only string 12 without a change on it, which is fairly common. |
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Andrew Goulet
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Posted 21 Nov 2020 10:28 am
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Joel, I played an old Fender previously and now a Marlen. I've had trouble getting the C pedal to be soft enough for comfort, as well as syncing the two pulls to sound right to my ears. Since I learned on a 6/9 tuning (and then added a knee lever to lower the root a half-step), I've always had other options for minor chords. I know that's not all the C pedal does, but I just never really worked it into my style. So, partly a lack of mechanical ability on my part and and part playing preference. If I was just starting out I would probably want to work out the C pedal kinks, but at this point I know myself well enough to know I won't miss it.
Fred, that is weird and I like it! I'll have to sit down with my notebook and think through some of the possibilities with that lower.
I was thinking of adding a half-step raise to the 12th string, but I'm not sure if that voicing would be very useful or make sense. |
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Scott Swartz
From:
St. Louis, MO
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Posted 21 Nov 2020 10:33 am
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Moving the F#s to F is a good replacement for the C pedal, but if you do that it would be better to move your current 1 and 2 over and have the F#s to F as pedal 1. This gives a useful G7 with the two pedals.
Another choice would be duplicate pedal 5 of the normal C6, lower the higher A or both As to G#. This with your RKL will get diminished voicings.
Also I think you will be better off to raise and lower both Ds (four changes) on your left knees as Johnny shows on his setup. Lowering the high D is important from both the E9 and C6 standpoints.
_________________
Scott Swartz
Steeltronics - Steel Guitar Pickups
www.steeltronics.com |
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Joel Jackson
From:
Detroit
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Posted 21 Nov 2020 12:31 pm
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| Andrew, it's funny, i learned on a 6/9 tuning on an 8 string Fender followed by a Marlen also. I think the tuning on the Fender was 5 b7 2 3 5 6 1 3 from bottom to top. When i started playing PSG, the A and B pedals felt intuitive but the C pedal was a little more elusive. The Franklin course has really helped me wrap my mind around some of the cool moves that are done on C or B and C and it's slowly working it's way into my playing more and more. I've not played D13 but have been intrigued by it coming from 6/9. Having said that I'd try A to Ab or F# to F. |
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Andrew Goulet
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Posted 21 Nov 2020 6:35 pm
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Hey, how about that, Joel! I love old steels (not that I see too many, up in MA). The Fender I played was tuned 2 1 3 5 6 1 3 9, five pedals and two barn hinges levers. I could fool people into listening to E9 changes, then switch to non-pedal swing on the next song using the middle six strings.
Scott, thanks for that idea! I can always use another 7th chord. I would raise and lower both roots, but I'm sticking with a single change for each string for now. I'm going to tune that high C to a C# instead, and work on my Jerry Byrd fluidity. 
A big thanks to b0b and Kelcey O'Neil as well, for their advice with this change. I'm feeling excited to jump in. |
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Andrew Frost
From:
Toronto, Ontario
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Posted 24 Nov 2020 11:07 pm
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You might want to try raising your middle strings (6&7) up a whole tone on pedal 3. A & F# up to B & G#.
You'd have a nice E or E7 pocket, some A major 7 sounds with the C# lever as well as the C#m7 and C#m9 potentially, with LKL lowering the D string.
There'd be a cool unison with the B strings too for some E9 style phrasing.
I'm playing a similar A6/D9 tuning and I have that change on pedal three. Its basically ped7 from C6, but translated to A6. As such with your D6 situation you could raise your adjacent D & B strings ( 4&5 ) in that manner as another option. Almost a classic C pedal at that point except it would have a really pronounced Maj7 flavour. |
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b0b
From:
Cloverdale, CA, USA
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Andrew Goulet
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Posted 25 Nov 2020 4:35 pm
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Thanks Andrew and b0b! I landed on something very close to what b0b has laid out, although your suggestion has me intrigued, Andrew. The copedent is a little bit of the new, and a little bit of the old for me.
Just waiting for my strings to arrive. After everything's set, I'll write a little something about the Marlen. I sure have learned alot about those guitars.
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Marlen S12 and a ZT Club |
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