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Topic: Partial chords vs. triads |
Bob Shelton
From:
Spring Branch, Texas, USA
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Posted 7 Nov 2020 8:49 am |
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| I searched for this topic but found nothing, so I'll broach it here. How do you determine whether to play a triad or just two notes? Is is just a matter of personal style or taste, or is there a "right" way to decide? I've heard steel players talk about playing something "right," but I'm not sure what they meant. Your comments will help me understand. |
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Skip Edwards
From:
LA,CA
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Posted 7 Nov 2020 9:04 am
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I'm a fan of using intervals. Two notes sometimes just sound cleaner than three. Two notes can fit musically in more places than three...leading between chords, for example...or sustaining an interval over a chord change.
Plus, it's easier to keep two notes in tune than three sometimes.
JMHO...YMMV |
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Bill Terry
From:
Bastrop, TX
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Posted 7 Nov 2020 9:21 am
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Everything Skip said for me... especially playing in tune with 2 notes rather than three.
That said, I usually don't think 'Should I play playing two notes or three notes?' in the heat of the moment.. it just comes out how it comes out. |
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Dan Kelly
From:
Boston, MA
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Posted 7 Nov 2020 9:27 am
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As the old saw goes... "Sometime less is more!" 
_________________
blah, blah, blah.
Hey You Kids! Get Off My Lawn!
blah, blah, blah. |
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Dale Rottacker
From:
Walla Walla Washington, USA
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Posted 7 Nov 2020 10:16 am
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| Skip Edwards wrote: |
I'm a fan of using intervals. Two notes sometimes just sound cleaner than three. Two notes can fit musically in more places than three...leading between chords, for example...or sustaining an interval over a chord change.
Plus, it's easier to keep two notes in tune than three sometimes.
JMHO...YMMV |
This touches a NOTE 🎶with me... I tend to be a bit "Chordy" with 3 and 4 note chords, which can end up being too much... Over the last few years I maybe use even more chords than in the past, but also try to use more single note lines, which to me make the chords sound even better... I'm also noticing how great the tone is enhanced with single or 2 note stuff.
_________________
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Fred Treece
From:
California, USA
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Posted 7 Nov 2020 11:31 am
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| I like Dale’s answer, which is pretty close to “all of the aboveâ€. Play what the song needs, play to your instrument’s strength, play what you hear in your head. That includes everything from cleanly blocked single notes to ringing 5-note arpeggios. Playing a solo and playing backup makes a difference too. The great ones don’t seem to shy away from this approach, why should I? |
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Bob Shelton
From:
Spring Branch, Texas, USA
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Posted 7 Nov 2020 12:03 pm
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| Thanks to all of you for taking time to input. Much to cogitate on here. |
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Ian Rae
From:
Redditch, England
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Posted 7 Nov 2020 12:52 pm
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In his Up From The Top courses Jeff Newman expresses the firm view that two notes are cleaner than three, especially when accompanying, which of course involves a lot of turnarounds where as Skip says, two notes are more versatile than a triad.
And in general, a long succession of triads can become indigestible. I know this because I have a tendency to over-indulge
_________________
Make sleeping dogs tell the truth!
Homebuilt keyless U12 7x5, Excel keyless U12 8x8, Williams keyless U12 7x8, Telonics rack and 15" cabs |
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Dick Sexton
From:
Greenville, Ohio
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Posted 7 Nov 2020 2:58 pm This is an interesting thread...
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I personally have for the most part, been a minimalist. It shows in my tabs. I was once told by a friend, now past, that it is not what you play as much as it is how you play what you play. When I hear big fat multi-note chords coming from a steel, I think clutter. I hear clutter. Like there are two songs being played, what the singer is doing and what the steel player is doing. Not always, but more times then one might think. I liken it to a heart shot on a deer, vice, putting an AR on full auto and letting it rip. Both will kill the deer, but only one will likely be fit to eat. Of course that may just be me...
Last edited by Dick Sexton on 7 Nov 2020 3:57 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Ian Rae
From:
Redditch, England
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Posted 7 Nov 2020 3:33 pm
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I want to play music that's fit to eat
_________________
Make sleeping dogs tell the truth!
Homebuilt keyless U12 7x5, Excel keyless U12 8x8, Williams keyless U12 7x8, Telonics rack and 15" cabs |
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Fred Treece
From:
California, USA
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Posted 7 Nov 2020 3:59 pm
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| Suddenly I have no taste for this conversation.... |
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Bengt Erlandsen
From:
Brekstad, NORWAY
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Posted 7 Nov 2020 4:58 pm
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Partial chords rule
Two notes, super useful and can almost always be made to sound "in tune"
Certain sounds require 3 note harmony to sound correct and they will sound even better if none of the other bandmembers are playing the same notes in the same range.
Instead of playing 3 notes at the same time, split it rhythmically as two intervals. Works for 4 note voicings as well.
Arpeggiating triads and such is cool sounding as well.
One loooooong sustaining note while adding single note harmony melodyline to it is also very cool. Might have to use an open string for that sustaining note but not neccessarely.
B.Erlandsen
Zumsteel S12extE9 7+7 |
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Eugene Cole
From:
near Washington Grove, MD, USA
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Posted 7 Nov 2020 7:44 pm Re: Partial chords vs. triads
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Almost all of my playing in done with the mindset of making the other players sound good. So I tend to lean toward being minimalist (but not simplistic) in what I choose to play..
I think that what and how we choose to play is a matter of personal musical aesthetical preference. Sometimes playing only part of a triad feels right to me. For example when transitioning from the I to the IV with the A and B pedals (E9 tuning); playing the third and the fifth on the I chord and then transitioning to what will be the root and the third of the IV chord. This sometimes feels like an elegant transition to me.
I also like to at times play the various parts of the chord in different octaves. For Example: root, and an octave up i will play the root, third and fifth simultaneously. I call such voicings rich-chords because they may contain 4 or 5 notes at a time and they assert a broader range of notes than many PSG players are inclined to play.
Regarding “right way†of playing. In the Bluegrass genre; traditionally players never played flatted-thirds a.k.a. minor thirds. This genre was pretty much all major chords all of the time. So for that style of music I will avoid including suspended sixths and minor thirds. However if I am playing some James Taylor songs I will go ahead and play VI-major chords because James chose to also use the VI major chord voicing when he composed and played his songs (note: the vi chord is usually a minor chord and is written as lower-case to convey this distinction). Other genre’s of music have other conventions; but I think this explains what I think of as the “right way†of playing or voicing chords.
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Sierra U14 8+5 my copedent, 1972 MSA D10 8+4, and nothing in the Bank. 8^) |
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Larry Bressington
From:
Nebraska
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Posted 8 Nov 2020 6:52 pm
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I'm passionate about this topic so i will put my bit in too.
It depends on whether you are playing by yourself as a soloist or are playing in a combo.
1)Typically if you are playing by yourself you try to fill it out more with full chords, as such as if you were playing an instrumental.
2) If you are playing in a combo/recording/backing track etc, two notes cut through much better.
3) It's also noted that less hardware, (non loaded guitar) can be had if you play intervals vs full chords.
4) The one note option is underrated and under used in our instrument...I think as steel players we tend to over do the 3/4 chord grips.
5)Low single note playing can be very enchanting and emotional when done tastefully, especially on a ballad, instead of sliding chords, slide just one note and weave and wander, such as what a violin would do in a combo setting.
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A.K.A Chappy. |
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Jim Pitman
From:
Waterbury Ctr. VT 05677 USA
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Posted 9 Nov 2020 5:04 am
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I'm with Larry B. If I play an instrumental ballad I'll play more triads since I'm try to be the whole band in a sense.
Afterall, this is what the PSG is good at and differentiates the instrument. In a band situation I'm less likely to do that.
But......On one occasion I had a band leader request "can you play something chordy and less single note?" |
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Dick Hitchcock
From:
Wayne, Nebraska
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Posted 9 Nov 2020 6:47 am
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What Chappy said....Especially #5!!
_________________
Justice Pro Lite 4x5.... NV112.... Steel seat. |
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Curt Trisko
From:
St. Paul, Minnesota, USA
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Posted 9 Nov 2020 7:24 am Re: Partial chords vs. triads
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| Bob Shelton wrote: |
| How do you determine whether to play a triad or just two notes? Is is just a matter of personal style or taste, or is there a "right" way to decide? |
Unless the song is clearly telling me what it wants, I default to a dyad - either by playing hitting the two notes simultaneously or hitting one first and layering the other on top of it. That usually gives me a frame of reference for whether the song needs a fuller chord or just a single note.
Even when it feels right to play a triad, my instincts tell me to be suspicious of that feeling. There is middle ground between playing a dyad and a triad where you can sometimes find the sweet spot:
1) adding an octave note to the dyad.
2) bending/slurring within the dyad.
3) arpeggiating
I think Larry and Jim have it right about why this is an ever-present topic. The instrument, by itself, begs to be played in a full, lush way. |
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Erv Niehaus
From:
Litchfield, MN, USA
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Posted 9 Nov 2020 8:49 am
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The main reason I went from a non-pedal steel to a pedal steel was the ability to get full, three string chords in a variety of positions. 
Erv |
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Ian Rae
From:
Redditch, England
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Posted 9 Nov 2020 4:31 pm
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Our band plays a fair bit of soul so I have to play a lot of 4-note jazz chords with effects dialled in. The guys like it if I sound like a Hammond or a Rhodes. I do get to sound like a pedal steel sometimes
_________________
Make sleeping dogs tell the truth!
Homebuilt keyless U12 7x5, Excel keyless U12 8x8, Williams keyless U12 7x8, Telonics rack and 15" cabs |
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Bob Shelton
From:
Spring Branch, Texas, USA
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Posted 9 Nov 2020 5:10 pm
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| Thanks again to each of you who took time to respond and to those who read the comments. I hope these insights will make us all a little bit better steel players. |
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Brooks Montgomery
From:
Idaho, USA
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Posted 9 Nov 2020 6:01 pm
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Another great learning thread for me. Thanks all.
Steel guitar forum online university is a great place!
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A banjo, like a pet monkey, seems like a good idea at first. |
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