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Topic: What’s Wrong with C#m7? |
Allan Revich
From:
Victoria, BC
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Posted 29 Oct 2020 2:52 pm |
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I’ve always liked playing in Open D tuning, DADF#AD but was always frustrated by the lack of a minor triad under a straight bar. Recently I started tuning string 2 up to B from A, for a D6 tuning. This now gives me a lot more options. Of course D6 is also Bm7 DADF#BD. This tuning turns out to be the “old†C#m7 tuning EBEG#C#E tuned down a full tone.
Apparently C#m7 was once a very popular tuning, but is seldom used anymore. My question is, why isn’t it used much anymore? It seems pretty versatile, and it isn’t much more complicated to play than open E.
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Current Tunings:
6 String | G – G B D G B D
7 String | G6 – e G B D G B D (re-entrant)
https://papadafoe.com/lap-steel-tuning-database |
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Ian Rae
From:
Redditch, England
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Posted 29 Oct 2020 3:12 pm
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I play exclusively pedal steel, but there seems to be a tendency to tune down but never up.
Quite a few E9 players tune down to D, and C6 also appears as B6 or Bb6. Your C#m7 (E6) tuning seems to have gone the same way.
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Make sleeping dogs tell the truth!
Homebuilt keyless U12 7x5, Excel keyless U12 8x8, Williams keyless U12 7x8, Telonics rack and 15" cabs |
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Douglas Schuch
From:
Valencia, Philippines
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Posted 29 Oct 2020 4:28 pm
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That is the tuning that Greg Booth uses to play Panhandle Rag on (he may have the lowest string at E - but D works as I think the only thing played on that string is the bass slide up - you can watch Troy Brenninger's interview with Greg on Youtube to learn more). It's a good tuning to get some swing style stuff out of a 6-string dobro.
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Bringing steel guitar to the bukid of Negros Oriental! |
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Roger Fletcher
From:
United Kingdom
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Posted 29 Oct 2020 11:32 pm
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| I suspect the main reason is that it has largely been supplanted by the 8 string E13, which combines the notes of the C#m7 and the E7 tunings, both of which were very popular in the 1930s. |
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Mike Neer
From:
NJ
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Posted 30 Oct 2020 4:46 am
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I learned on this tuning and played for years. It’s Sol Hoopii’s second tuning (first was A, third was a variation of this with the two bass strings replaced by B and D).
The benefit of this tuning rather than E or A is that with the minor triad, it allows for more exploration of dominant 7th sounds which were influeced by Sol’s love for jazzier sounds.
A benefit for players moving from E tuning is that it puts a third interval on the top two strings rather than 2 and 3. For melody playing, strings 1 and 2 are your money strings.
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Links to streaming music, websites, YouTube: Links |
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Erv Niehaus
From:
Litchfield, MN, USA
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Posted 30 Oct 2020 6:54 am
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When a T8 Stringmaster was my main guitar I had one neck tuned to the C#m7 tuning.
The only thing I did different was put a B between the E and the C#. 
Erv |
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Sebastian Müller
From:
Berlin / Germany
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Posted 2 Nov 2020 12:23 pm
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It is a great sounding tuning, very pure, similar to a Major tuning that there are no really small intervals. But it is a bit awkward to learn and does not have such a logical layout as a standard 6th tuning.
I love it, together with A Higbass you can cover a lot of ground.
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https://hawaiian-steel-guitar.com |
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Greg Booth
From:
Anchorage, AK, USA
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Posted 14 Dec 2020 10:57 pm
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| Douglas Schuch wrote: |
| That is the tuning that Greg Booth uses to play Panhandle Rag on (he may have the lowest string at E - but D works as I think the only thing played on that string is the bass slide up - you can watch Troy Brenninger's interview with Greg on Youtube to learn more). It's a good tuning to get some swing style stuff out of a 6-string dobro. |
This is incorrect, I play Panhandle in regular G tuning in the key of D. I do however play Boot Heel Drag in D6/Bm7 tuning D A D F# B D low to high.
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Greg
Kathy Kallick Band
www.youtube.com/user/aksliderdobro |
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Steffen Gunter
From:
Munich, Germany
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Posted 15 Dec 2020 12:05 am
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C#- (or E13) is my favorite tuning – L2H: G-B-D-E-F#-G#-C#-E
I love it because I get these (for me) magic voicings like in Paradise Isle, Moon Of Manakoora and it's perfect for Beyond The Reef, Hula Blues and so many more.
I can retune the same string set to A6 and B11 but I found out that just tuning G# up to A gives a great Country & Western tuning ( L2H: G-B-D-E-F#-A-C#-E)
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My YT channel: www.youtube.com/user/madsteffen |
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David M Brown
From:
California, USA
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Posted 15 Dec 2020 6:26 am Re: What’s Wrong with C#m7?
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| Allan Revich wrote: |
| This tuning turns out to be the “old†C#m7 tuning EBEG#C#E |
I keep my acoustic resonator lap steel set up with strings that tune to:
A low bass
E A E A C# E
Open E
E B E G# B E
and C#m7
E B E G# C# E.
C#m7 has a lot of uses and sounds very "Hawaiian" to me.
On my lap steels that have A6 or C6 as a basic tuning, I also will use
B D E G# C# E
as a variant of the old E7 tuning. |
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D Schubert
From:
Columbia, MO, USA
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Posted 15 Dec 2020 1:59 pm
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| Some of the old Supro and National guitars were equipped with a Rowe-DeArmond Stringtone triplex tailpiece that allowed the use of three tunings -- E, A, and C#m7 on the same neck. |
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Erv Niehaus
From:
Litchfield, MN, USA
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Posted 15 Dec 2020 2:12 pm
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I have a guitar for sale that has a Hipshot changer on it that can do the same thing.
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Jesse Pearson
From:
San Diego , CA
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Posted 15 Dec 2020 2:17 pm
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| I really like the vintage sound of Sol's C#min7 tuning, low to high EBEG#C#E. After a few years of frustrating myself to death trying to play Jazz on C6 tuning as a way to help learn steel, I finally decided it wasn't the best suited for me compared to playing jazz lines on guitar or other instruments. I finally came to the conclusion that what I liked most about non pedal steel was the early 30' and 40'Hawaiian stuff along with Don Helms style in E6 tuning. The early Hawaiian stuff is fun to transcribe and figure out in C#min7 and has the vintage vibe built in. I use the non root secondary chord substitution approach to get the essence of the chords I need beyond the very basic triads. I like the simplicity of what's available without too much effort. And if memory serves me right, Sleep Walk used C#min7 tuning as well. C6 is a great tuning for everything, but C#min7 is way vintage sounding without that much effort. Dick McIntire has some basic lesson stuff floating around. Mike Neer was talking about putting out a book on C#min7 at one time I think, but I haven't been able to find it yet? |
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Tom Cooper
From:
Orlando, Fl
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Posted 15 Dec 2020 2:42 pm C#m7
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I am getting back into dobro again with a swing fiddle player and have one dobro in G for the grass stuff and the other in E13 spelled E B D G# C# E. That 7th is what I missed from the other variations and the root and fifth on bottom makes for great comping. I have yet to try it in battle conditions/rehearsal, but I am having lots of fun with it just on my own. My main lap steel tuning is E13 so six string dobro with this is familiar.
Also have an old Supro that was in A6 that I now have similar E13 on now. The 7th really makes me happy. May be missing something that C6 and A6 have but it sure is fun to play on. |
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Miles Lang
From:
Venturaloha
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Posted 16 Dec 2020 7:47 am
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Santo Farina also preferred C#m7, that can be heard on Sleep Walk
(Hi)
E
C#
B
G#
E
C#
Not sure about the 2 low strings
Many of those S&J tunes lay out beautifully in this tuning.
_________________
Santo Fan Club - from the island of Coney to the sands of Rockaway
Jill Martini & The Shrunken Heads
All aloha, all the time |
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Frank Welsh
From:
Upstate New York, USA
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Posted 16 Dec 2020 11:17 am
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| Miles Lang wrote: |
Santo Farina also preferred C#m7, that can be heard on Sleep Walk
(Hi)
E
C#
B
G#
E
C#
Not sure about the 2 low strings
Many of those S&J tunes lay out beautifully in this tuning. |
Miles - good observation. Santo & Johnny's other hits such as "Teardrop" "Caravan" and "Summertime" as well as some beautiful renditions of standards on their albums were recorded with C#m7. Interesting that these recordings of original and pop tunes were not the least bit "Hawaiian" sounding but were perfect on the C#m7.
The lesson I take away from this is that much of Santo & Johnny's success was Santo's self-admitted approach to reflect the great vocalists of the era, not other instrumentalists, using the single note approach and the relatively "simple" structure of the tunings he used to make his steel guitar "sing." Their popularity would seem to confirm the wisdom of this approach. |
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Jesse Pearson
From:
San Diego , CA
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Posted 17 Dec 2020 5:38 pm
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| To the best of my knowledge, Sleepwalk used this particular C#min7 tuning...low to high...E,G#,B,C#,E,G#,C#,E. I first learned it in C#min7 tuning on a 6 string lap and then relearned it on C6 tuning. There was almost no difference in being able to play it pretty much note for note that your average listener would catch, whether it's a 6 string or 8 string steel. I believe Teardrop used this same C#min7 tuning as well. C#min7 tuning's are pretty cool for an authentic early Hawaiian vibe. Sometimes less is more. After all, tuning's and pitch are just a tool. |
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Erv Niehaus
From:
Litchfield, MN, USA
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Posted 18 Dec 2020 8:07 am
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I think Santo had a B between the C# and G#.
That's how I tuned my C#m7 tuning.
Erv |
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