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Topic: Tilt forward for better string contact |
Roy Carroll
From:
North of a Round Rock
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Posted 23 Oct 2020 9:06 am |
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I've noticed that since I tilted my steel guitars up in the back slightly, I seem to "dig in" a little deeper with the picks. It seems that it also allows me to "pull" a little on the strings as well, which also helps with tone. I have always picked pretty aggressive. I was wondering about the pros and cons of this advocated by my favorite player Paul Franklin.
Let me know what you think?
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Just north of the Weird place, south of Georgetown |
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Ian Rae
From:
Redditch, England
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Posted 23 Oct 2020 10:40 am
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There is no law that says that any guitar played with a bar has to be exactly horizontal.
What I call "personal geometry" dictates what works best for the individual. Our fingers, hands and arms are all different.
By all means copy a player you admire, but if it doesn't work that will be because you don't share the same body. It's another "if it works for you" 
_________________
Make sleeping dogs tell the truth!
Homebuilt keyless U12 7x5, Excel keyless U12 8x8, Williams keyless U12 7x8, Telonics rack and 15" cabs |
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Tucker Jackson
From:
Portland, Oregon, USA
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Posted 23 Oct 2020 11:10 am Re: Tilt forward for better string contact
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| Roy Carroll wrote: |
| I've noticed that since I tilted my steel guitars up in the back slightly, I seem to "dig in" a little deeper with the picks. |
All good, and it makes sense.
Question: could the 'change of angle of attack' thing also be achieved by curving the pick blades a little less? Maybe? I don't know... my solution to getting more of that 'pulling' attack you're describing was more disruptive: had to re-learn a new hand posture, along with some slight pick-bend adjustments. It made a huge improvement in my picking, but I never tried jacking up the back legs as an option. |
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Paul Sutherland
From:
Placerville, California
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Posted 23 Oct 2020 11:19 am
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IMO, whether you tip your steel one way or the other should depend mostly on your anatomy. If you have relatively long arms, tip it away from you. If you have relatively short arms, tip it towards you.
I fit the later category and tipping my steel back towards me a little bit is much more comfortable for playing. You will play your best when you are comfortable.
_________________
It don't mean a thing if it ain't got that swing. |
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Michael Douchette
From:
Gallatin, TN (deceased)
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Dave Magram
From:
San Jose, California, USA
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Posted 24 Oct 2020 9:18 am
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| Michael Douchette wrote: |
| I've always had my steels leaning forward. It was just natural. |
Same here.
I'm tall with long arms, and found that if I didn't tilt the steel guitar forward slightly (the back legs are about 1 inch longer than the front legs), my wrist was bending upwards.
That is not comfortable or ergonomic when playing a four-hour gig because it causes the finger muscles in your forearm to bend, when they should be straight to avoid cramping and carpal tunnel syndrome.
I started tipping the steel forward so that my forearm, wrist, and hand were in a straight line and without any muscle tension, long before I noticed that Paul Franklin and others tipped their steel guitars forward.
IMHO, tilting the steel forward (or back) is not a fashion statement, it's just good ergonomics.
- Dave |
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Paul Sutherland
From:
Placerville, California
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Posted 24 Oct 2020 12:24 pm
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If you tilt forward you probably also use a somewhat elevated seat position. If you tilt back you may want to lower your seat a bit to prevent any odd angles at the wrist. I agree that ergonomics are important.
_________________
It don't mean a thing if it ain't got that swing. |
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Ian Rae
From:
Redditch, England
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Posted 24 Oct 2020 12:50 pm
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On the subject of geometry, if you observe tall people they usually have either long leg bones and an average body, or long vertebrae and normal legs. (If they have both, they're a giant!)
So "tall" isn't one simple thing. It's the guys with long legs that need lift kits.
_________________
Make sleeping dogs tell the truth!
Homebuilt keyless U12 7x5, Excel keyless U12 8x8, Williams keyless U12 7x8, Telonics rack and 15" cabs |
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Kevin Fix
From:
Michigan, USA
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Posted 24 Oct 2020 1:05 pm
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| Watch Robert Randolph. |
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Dave Magram
From:
San Jose, California, USA
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Michael Douchette
From:
Gallatin, TN (deceased)
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Jack Stoner
From:
Kansas City, MO
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Posted 25 Oct 2020 2:05 am
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| I've been playing pedal steel since 1969 and never felt the need to tilt my steels. I did try it once after Lynn Owsley sat in and used my steel. Lynn raised the back legs as he is taller. I didn't like the raised/tilt and quickly lowered the rear legs. |
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Ian Rae
From:
Redditch, England
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Posted 25 Oct 2020 3:11 am
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| Dave Magram wrote: |
| tilting the steel forward (or back) is not a fashion statement, it's just good ergonomics |
They make steels adjustable because people are different. As you can't quickly adjust the front legs it has to be the back ones. No big deal, but still worth discussing!
_________________
Make sleeping dogs tell the truth!
Homebuilt keyless U12 7x5, Excel keyless U12 8x8, Williams keyless U12 7x8, Telonics rack and 15" cabs |
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Dave Magram
From:
San Jose, California, USA
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Posted 25 Oct 2020 7:42 pm
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| Jack Stoner wrote: |
| I've been playing pedal steel since 1969 and never felt the need to tilt my steels. I did try it once after Lynn Owsley sat in and used my steel. Lynn raised the back legs as he is taller. I didn't like the raised/tilt and quickly lowered the rear legs. |
Well, Jack--I don't know how tall you are, but whatever your height is, you apparently are the perfect height to play steel guitar! 
Not all of us are so lucky!
- Dave |
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Roy Carroll
From:
North of a Round Rock
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Posted 26 Oct 2020 4:39 am
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Thanks Gents for all the replies. I am 6'1" and have pretty long arms. My picks are curved so that the fingers are curled in.
Been playing a very long time. I just thought that maybe some of the newbies could try it to get comfortable.
Thanks again,
_________________
Just north of the Weird place, south of Georgetown |
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Franklin
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Posted 26 Oct 2020 4:56 am
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When I put my arms to the side and relax them, the wrist looks just like the snap shot in the photo above.
A flat guitar kept my wrist slightly angled which is not a physically relaxed position. I knew how committed I was to playing. So over time, something as simple as a slightly bent wrist could cause physical issues decades later. That is my reasoning. |
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George Kimery
From:
Limestone, TN, USA
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Posted 26 Oct 2020 7:21 am Tilt forward for better string contact
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Like most steel guitar issues, I don't think there is a right or wrong, it's what works best for you. I've been playing for over 50 years and played a couple of years with a tilt. I have long legs and my guitars have to be 2 inches higher. If I tilt my guitar, it throws my wrist into an angle. My seat is 2 inches higher too.
I am probably the only steel player in the world that carry's a small level to lay on the fretboard to level up. I don't do this to make sure my guitar is level. I do it because I want it set up exactly the same way every time. If you want the same amount of tilt every time, you can use the level too. Just tilt your guitar the way you want it, lay the level down and remember where the bubble is. You can mark it or bring the bubble up to level, then built up one end of the level with strips of tape so the bubble will be centered, but it won't be level. I got my level at Lowe's many years ago. It's orange and is about 1" x 1-1/2" x 1/4" thick and slides underneath the strings easily. |
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Larry Dering
From:
Missouri, USA
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Posted 26 Oct 2020 8:24 am
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| George is leveling the playing field. (Sorry I couldn't resist). |
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Jack Stoner
From:
Kansas City, MO
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Posted 27 Oct 2020 5:31 am
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As I previously noted I have my steel level not titled. Paul mentioned wrist angle. I looked at mine last night at our Monday evening gig and both my bar and picking hand arms and wrists are straight on the E9th neck. I'm using a stock Steeler's Choice seat.
(George, I don't carry a level but I have one similar to yours that I keep in my steel tool kit at home and use to level my guitar). |
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Larry Bressington
From:
Nebraska
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Posted 27 Oct 2020 8:02 am
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It's definatly a valid point, i think i will look into this, i've always just eyeballed it, i'm 5'8 and always been a leveler, but as George said, i think the level is a good idea and with todays smartphones you could use measurement/level app and lay you phone on the guitar, once you get a reference point.
One advantage of a tilt on a S10, is the bar dosen't want to roll off the steel when you sort of place/throw it on the ledge to grab the 6 stringer.
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A.K.A Chappy. |
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Paul Sutherland
From:
Placerville, California
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Posted 27 Oct 2020 10:42 am
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If level is the goal, it seems to me that what would be important is level to the floor, NOT level to the horizon. So what good is a level?
_________________
It don't mean a thing if it ain't got that swing. |
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Jack Stoner
From:
Kansas City, MO
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Posted 27 Oct 2020 1:42 pm
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| As I level or check level at home, I have a solid and level tiled floor that I set the steel on. |
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John McClung
From:
Olympia WA, USA
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Posted 27 Oct 2020 10:34 pm
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What PF said... the forward tilt yields a more relaxed and less strained wrist, and when I started doing that, my blocking and picking both improved quite a bit. Several students switched and agreed that it improved their playing.
It's worth a try, easy to do, costs nothing.
_________________
E9 INSTRUCTION
▪️ If you want to have an ongoing discussion, please email me, don't use the Forum messaging which I detest! steelguitarlessons@earthlink.net |
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Larry Bressington
From:
Nebraska
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Posted 28 Oct 2020 7:02 am
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In the past, i've used a non erasable marker on the rear legs where they adjust, it did wear off over a long time and then i went back to winging it.
I tried the tilt last night, as i would like to get a little bit deeper into this topic, however i did not like the knee levers further up my leg, and the reach felt a bit different....Its more sensitive for adjustment if you have vertical levers as that knee lift has to be just right.
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A.K.A Chappy. |
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John McClung
From:
Olympia WA, USA
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Posted 28 Oct 2020 8:37 am
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| Larry Bressington wrote: |
In the past, i've used a non erasable marker on the rear legs where they adjust, it did wear off over a long time and then i went back to winging it.
I tried the tilt last night, as i would like to get a little bit deeper into this topic, however i did not like the knee levers further up my leg, and the reach felt a bit different....Its more sensitive for adjustment if you have vertical levers as that knee lift has to be just right. |
Important factors in all this, Larry. Most LKV's are height adjustable, so that's usually not a problem. My Mullen has an extender that lowers the whole lever; then you can still adjust the lever angle with a set screw to get exactly the height you need, without the lever itself winding up at an extreme near-45°.
Some steels have shorter levers, Carters are a good example, and if you jack up the back end too much, you're missing the lever altogether. One of my knocks on Carters.
_________________
E9 INSTRUCTION
▪️ If you want to have an ongoing discussion, please email me, don't use the Forum messaging which I detest! steelguitarlessons@earthlink.net |
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