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Topic: Tunings That Should be Popular (but are not) |
Allan Revich
From:
Victoria, BC
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Posted 15 Oct 2020 4:45 pm |
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Everybody knows about the really popular tunings like
C6 - CEGACE
D/E - DADF#AD / EBEG#BE
G - GBDGBD
Then there are several less popular, but still fairly common tunings. Too many to name. And then there are a few orphans that never show up in master tuning lists, but seem to be incredibly useful. It’s a mystery to me why these are not more popular.
b0b’s G major 9 - GBDF#AD you have a low major on the bottom, a high major on top, and a minor in the middle. Not to mention 6ths, major 7s, major 9s, and minor 7s.
“My†G9 - GBDFAD you have a major on the bottom, minor on the top, diminished in the middle plus dom 7, and 9s. Great for blues.
This D6/Bm7 - DADF#BD has all the low end growl of open D for blues and rock, plus the minor chord up top, and sweet Hawaiian or jazz 6th chords too. I’ve only seen one or two references to it, one from SGF member and author, Andy Volk.
I’m sure there are others too, that for whatever reasons never caught on. I’d be interested in hearing what other players think is problematic about the three tunings I mentioned, and also about any tunings you think should be “hall of famersâ€, but are nearly unheard of.
_________________
Current Tunings:
6 String | G – G B D G B D
7 String | G6 – e G B D G B D (re-entrant)
https://papadafoe.com/lap-steel-tuning-database
Last edited by Allan Revich on 16 Oct 2020 10:15 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Jouni Karvonen
From:
Helsinki, Finland
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Posted 15 Oct 2020 9:34 pm
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D13 (?)
Lo to Hi: A-C-D-F#-B-d |
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Roger Fletcher
From:
United Kingdom
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Posted 16 Oct 2020 12:37 am
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I think it might be useful to review how steel guitar tunings developed.
The steel guitar developed in Hawaii in the late nineteenth century from the slack key guitar, and the first tunings were direct imports. However, it was not possible to play the steel guitar with those slack strings flapping against the frets, and string tension had to be increased.
The easiest way was to tune the strings up a whole tone. Thus open G (Taro Patch) became the original steel guitar A major low bass tuning, and open D became the E major tuning used, for example, by Dick McIntire.
Then when the electric steel arrived in the 1930s, the original self-accompanied alternating bass style of the slack key guitar went out of favour. The low E of the A major tuning was dropped, and a fifth string C# was added to give the so-called High Bass tuning.
At the same time more colour was added to tunings by incorporating other notes. E major became E7, and raising the second string B to C# gave C# minor. When 8 string guitars became available, it was feasible to combine these two tunings in one as E13.
It had become customary to keep the first string as E, although there is nothing sacrosanct about this, and there were some players who bucked this trend. The Rogers family in Hawaii stuck to D tunings, which can be regarded as a nice compromise between C and E tunings; and players including Don Helms and Little Roy Wiggins added a high G# string to their E tunings. If the tradition of an E first string is adhered to, these become C tunings.
Particularly among players of resonator guitars, there seems to be a trend back to the original slack key pitches by using thicker gauge strings. Thus the A major High Bass has become the standard open G Dobro tuning, and E tunings have reverted to D tunings.
To address the three tunings specified by Alan, bOb's tuning seems to be the same as Don Helms' tuning but a whole tone lower. Both this and Alan's G9 offer the advantages mentioned but lose the big dominant seventh chord. It is a tradeoff. The D6/Bm7 is the C# minor tuning, probably first used by Sol Hoopii, tuned down a whole tone. |
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Roger Fletcher
From:
United Kingdom
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Posted 16 Oct 2020 12:38 am
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| Apologies Allan. I see I omitted the second L from your name in my earlier post. |
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Allan Revich
From:
Victoria, BC
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Posted 16 Oct 2020 9:50 am
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Thanks Roger. That is a really interesting history of tuning development. I learned quite a bit from it. The information also answers part of my question. Nevertheless, we’ve had the lap steel in its present form for more than 80 years now—plenty of time for new “standard†tunings to develop.
Part of the combined joy and frustration of our instrument is that EVERY tuning is a compromise in one way or another. So my curiosity remains as to why the three tunings* I named never caught on, and what other very uncommon, but apparently very practical tunings, have never caught on.
*EDIT: The D6/Bm7 tuning seems very uncommon, while its sister-tuning C#min7 was once quite popular.
Last edited by Allan Revich on 16 Oct 2020 11:05 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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Paul McEvoy
From:
Baltimore, USA
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Posted 16 Oct 2020 10:00 am
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| I don't see any dominant 7th or any diminished anything in Bob's tuning. Am I missing something? |
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Allan Revich
From:
Victoria, BC
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Posted 16 Oct 2020 10:13 am
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| Paul McEvoy wrote: |
| I don't see any dominant 7th or any diminished anything in Bob's tuning. Am I missing something? |
Not missing anything Paul regarding the dom 7. I erred there. I noted that the diminished chord is in my G9, not Bob’s Gmaj9. Bdim; Root-flat3-flat5.
I’m going to correct my information by editing the original post. |
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Jim Fogarty
From:
Phila, Pa, USA
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Posted 16 Oct 2020 11:04 pm
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I still think guitar standard tuning hasn’t been explored enough as a lap steel tuning. Especially for single note lines and soloing. I’m going to throw it on the far neck of my Supro D-6 and see how much use I get.
Plus there’s lots of options just a tuner turn away. |
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Jouni Karvonen
From:
Helsinki, Finland
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Allan Revich
From:
Victoria, BC
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Posted 17 Oct 2020 8:48 am
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| Jim Fogarty wrote: |
I still think guitar standard tuning hasn’t been explored enough as a lap steel tuning. Especially for single note lines and soloing. I’m going to throw it on the far neck of my Supro D-6 and see how much use I get.
Plus there’s lots of options just a tuner turn away. |
That’s a cool idea. Standard guitar tuning could be expressed as a chord too I guess. I think it would be Em11 (no 9) or G6add9. So you have major triads (G), G major 6, G9 or GM9 (no 7), Em, Em7 — all under a straight bar. Definitely workable.
My guess is that it isn’t popular for slide because, even though it will work, there are many other tunings that work better. Still, if one is an accomplished guitar player there’s something to be said about sticking to a familiar tuning.
_________________
Current Tunings:
6 String | G – G B D G B D
7 String | G6 – e G B D G B D (re-entrant)
https://papadafoe.com/lap-steel-tuning-database |
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Paul McEvoy
From:
Baltimore, USA
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Posted 17 Oct 2020 10:59 am
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Speaking of random non steel tunings that would work well, I have been studying African music with the South African guitar player Derek Gripper for a while. He plays Kora music on the guitar and generally uses a tuning he devised dadf#be. Drop d and drop f#.
I don't really think of it as a chord but it's sort of a D69 and has b-7 as well.
And he also plays Bach in a similar tuning eadf#be (same thing except returning the low string to E. Apparently it's a sort of lute tuning. It's a bit more musical somehow than standard. To me at least. |
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Paul Strojan
From:
California, USA
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Posted 18 Oct 2020 8:45 pm
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| I am quite enamored with E9 as a lap steel tuning. |
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Jim Pitman
From:
Waterbury Ctr. VT 05677 USA
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Posted 20 Oct 2020 4:33 am
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Speaking of tuning limitations, maybe a practical compromise between a full pedal steel like changer and a non-pedal steel would be to mimic what the non-pedaled harp instrument does.
Harps have the ability to raise any string a half step with the flip of a simple lever. The stop is tune-able. Harps typically have strings that when stroked in order of placement, play a scale. To change the key of a song from C to D for example the F note is changed to F#, and the C note is changed to a C# via the small levers at the top of the harp. Voila, now when you rake the strings you play a scale in the key of D. This has the advantage that the key is changed but the intervals between adjacent strings is preserved making it easier to wrap your mind around.
I think it might be useful to adapt this concept to a lap steel, ie come up with some simple mechanisms at the key head that will result in delivering 2 or 3 of your favorite tunings without having two or three necks or two or three guitars.
Has this been done already? |
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Paul McEvoy
From:
Baltimore, USA
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Posted 20 Oct 2020 5:19 am
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This would do what you're talking about. Not maybe the most elegant solution (I've never tried them).
https://www.pitch-key.com/ |
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David M Brown
From:
California, USA
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Posted 20 Oct 2020 12:39 pm
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| Paul McEvoy wrote: |
This would do what you're talking about. Not maybe the most elegant solution (I've never tried them).
https://www.pitch-key.com/ |
I have tried them and they do work...reasonably but only so well as they are an add-on and are attached somewhat loosely.
One of the best I figured out was to go from A6 to C6/A7; C to C# and F# to G on a 6 string; I also was able to go from E7 to variant tunings, etc.
The drawbacks are that they only work on certain string spacings behind the nut, and are hard to make work well on a very short section of string.
The machining was good and the tuning could be set accurately, as long as they didn't get knocked about any.
If it means anything, right now I don't have them set up on any steel, but am considering which one to consider for another use. |
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Paul McEvoy
From:
Baltimore, USA
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Posted 20 Oct 2020 2:22 pm
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Not being any kind of good player myself, I kinda wonder if this is a solution looking for a problem. If you are good enough to have reason to play in multiple tunings, I bet you're good enough to switch tunings pretty damn fast.
I've been practing between two tunings on armpit guitar and now tuning between them is so natural I can do it without thinking about it at all. |
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Mike Neer
From:
NJ
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Posted 20 Oct 2020 4:51 pm
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E9 from high to low. This is what guys like Speedy West, Bud Isaacs and Buddie (that’s how it was spelled back then) Emmons had on their Bigsbys, with pedals to make changes. I discovered it by transcribing Buddy’s Boogie and later learned the history. It’s a great tuning. If I wasn’t sticking to C13, I’d be playing E9.
E B G# F# D B G# E
_________________
Links to streaming music, websites, YouTube: Links |
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Roger Fletcher
From:
United Kingdom
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Posted 21 Oct 2020 1:02 am
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| I seem to remember reading that the first person to use that E9 (top 6 strings) was Eddie Bush. Don't know if anyone can confirm that. |
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Gene Tani
From:
Pac NW
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Posted 21 Oct 2020 4:14 am
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Bill Keith's banjo drop tuners could also be used to drop a half or full tone, I remember seeing picture of one on a steel once in the forum. Disadvantages: $175/pair used, big/stick way out of headstock, can go on headstock up to 5/8" or so deep
https://bb.steelguitarforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=2417
_________________
- keyless Sonny Jenkins laps stay in tune forever!; Carter PSG
- The secret sauce: polyester sweatpants to buff your picks, cheapo Presonus channel strip for preamp/EQ/compress/limiter, Diet Mountain Dew |
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Mike Neer
From:
NJ
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Posted 21 Oct 2020 5:00 am
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| Roger Fletcher wrote: |
| I seem to remember reading that the first person to use that E9 (top 6 strings) was Eddie Bush. Don't know if anyone can confirm that. |
I believe it was E13, with second string tuned to C#.
_________________
Links to streaming music, websites, YouTube: Links |
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David M Brown
From:
California, USA
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Posted 21 Oct 2020 12:32 pm
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[quote="Mike Neer"]
| Roger Fletcher wrote: |
I believe it was E13, with second string tuned to C#. |
Another cool tuning! your E9 with 2nd string C#. |
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Paul Strojan
From:
California, USA
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Posted 21 Oct 2020 6:48 pm
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| Jim Pitman wrote: |
Speaking of tuning limitations, maybe a practical compromise between a full pedal steel like changer and a non-pedal steel would be to mimic what the non-pedaled harp instrument does.
Harps have the ability to raise any string a half step with the flip of a simple lever. The stop is tune-able. Harps typically have strings that when stroked in order of placement, play a scale. To change the key of a song from C to D for example the F note is changed to F#, and the C note is changed to a C# via the small levers at the top of the harp. Voila, now when you rake the strings you play a scale in the key of D. This has the advantage that the key is changed but the intervals between adjacent strings is preserved making it easier to wrap your mind around.
I think it might be useful to adapt this concept to a lap steel, ie come up with some simple mechanisms at the key head that will result in delivering 2 or 3 of your favorite tunings without having two or three necks or two or three guitars.
Has this been done already? |
I have had the same idea. I want a guitar that replicates the Bud Isaacs/Speed West pedal tuning. As it was that copedent had four usable lap steel tunings in it: an E9 (E, G#, B, D, F#, G#, B, E), A6 ( E, A, C#, E, F#, A, C#, E), D Major 9 (E, G#, B, D, F#, A, C#, E) and E9 over A6.
I came across this guitar on the Fuzzy website. It looks like a tuning shifter.
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Allan Revich
From:
Victoria, BC
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Posted 24 Oct 2020 3:28 pm C Diatonic
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Just came across this interesting, and very useful sounding 6 string tuning on YouTube.
C E G B D F
https://youtu.be/w7wQEA1yQWo
Another tuning that looks like it should be more popular than it is.
_________________
Current Tunings:
6 String | G – G B D G B D
7 String | G6 – e G B D G B D (re-entrant)
https://papadafoe.com/lap-steel-tuning-database |
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Bart Bull
From:
New Orleans, USA/Paris FR/Berkeley USSR
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Posted 30 Oct 2020 6:47 pm
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Got a no-name resonator recently — a dob-no, or maybe a res-non-ator.
Between all the different lap and pedal steel tunings I hack away at (E9;Open G and D and low-bass Hawaiian A;, cross-note/E-minor; C6 and Leon McAuliffe's A6 and E13, and my own odd variants), well, somehow standard dobro tuning just didn't melt my butter.
So I tried b0b's GBDF#AD, a really intriguing tuning.
Now I sound just like Jerry Douglas meets Bashful Brother Oswald.
(If, that is, Jerry fell downstairs and landed on top of Oswald while Cousin Jody stepped clear and made comical faces.)
But that's my playing, because b0b's tuning has a lot to offer...even for the likes of me.
_________________
Undoubtedly the finest pedal steel player in Paris' 18th Arrondissement
Disaster of Touch, Tone & Taste; Still mastering the manifold mysteries of the Sho-Bud Maverick
Supro, Oahu, pin-striped Rus-Ler SD-10, y tiger-stripe-painted Stella
Hohner Corona Dos en Fa, y Gabanelli en Sol |
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Robert Murphy
From:
West Virginia
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Posted 31 Oct 2020 10:56 am
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| A C# E G B D. A11 and parts of two familiar tunings A and G major. Plus a dominant 7, minor 7, and 3 note diminished. For chord choice and backup I fine it very versatile. |
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