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Topic: LeGrande ll Bell Cranks |
Willis Vanderberg
From:
Petoskey Mi
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Posted 1 Jun 2006 7:00 am |
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there is a LeGrande ll for sale on the Forum that the owner has changed bell cranks.
He removed the 14 hole cranks and went with the 4 hole cranks. It seems to me that, that would be not only expensive, but labor intensive as well. Does anyone know why one would do this ? I have three Emmons guitars and can't think of a reason for this move.
Old Bud |
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Ron !
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Posted 1 Jun 2006 7:30 am
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Hey Bud....how ya be my friend?I hope your doin' well.
I wouldn't change those.And yes it's labor intensive.And go back to the 4hole ones is something that I don't understand.Maybe the owner bought a new one and wanted the 14 hole crancks on his new one.
Ron
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Bobby Boggs
From:
Upstate SC.
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Posted 1 Jun 2006 2:01 pm
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| Or, maybe the owner bought an older one.Liked the sound of it better.Then switched the rods and cranks.. Just a guess.. |
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Charlie Moore
From:
Deville, Louisiana, USA
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Posted 1 Jun 2006 7:00 pm
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| Well i can tell ya, those E clips are a nitemare for one thing...JMO...Charlie... |
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Tony Prior
From:
Charlotte NC
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Posted 2 Jun 2006 12:43 am
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It is my understanding that some very early L-II's did have 4 hole bellcranks..
Legrande, Lashley Legrande, Legrande II's...
4 to 14..
but is there really any exact information about the crossover from 4 to 14 ?
Ron Jr told me that he thought that the earliest II's may have had 4 hole cranks...
My Lashley Legrande (D10 Long Keyhead) has 4 hole's..the clips are NOT a problem if you have the proper tool...
When I purchased my Legrande (private) I asked Mr Bobbe ( of Seymour fame ) and he told me that if I walked from a sweet guitar because it has less holes in the bellcranks , I was the one with the extra holes in MY HEAD !
Yes, the action is a tad stiffer than my Carter, but it feels about the same as my Sho-Buds and the MSA I had...
But the Steel is also 20 years older than my Carter as well...
If I am wrong about the L-II's and the 4 hole deal ,I have no problem being corrected..
but my point is..
Who in there right mind would change them all from 14 to 4 ?
Not for the hardware, but rather the sanity of the work involved !
I am thinking the Steel is as it was built..with 4 hole BC's...
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TPrior
TPrior Steel Guitar Homesite
[This message was edited by Tony Prior on 02 June 2006 at 05:21 AM.] |
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Willis Vanderberg
From:
Petoskey Mi
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Posted 2 Jun 2006 3:58 am
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Tony:
I agree with you. The only problem is the serial # indicates it is a late 90's guitar,
according to the seller.
So who knows........? |
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Bobby Boggs
From:
Upstate SC.
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Posted 2 Jun 2006 9:18 pm
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Here's what I do know.Most but not all of the last Lashley LeGrandes had 14 hole cranks.
Only 3 things seperated the last Lashleys LeGrandes and LeGrande II's. All LII's had 14 hole cranks,the pedal rod nuts where painted black.And the LII's had a LII decal.
The 14 hole cranks were the reason for the name change.Could someone have special ordered an LII with 4 hole cranks? My guess is yes.Ron SR once built a PP for a customer of mine. That had a 1/2 inch longer scale on the E9 and the standard scale on the C6th.
If you had a good relationship with Ron and or had the money? You could pretty much get what you wanted.
For the record.4 hole cranks are fine. 14 hole cranks are of course even better.Will 4 hole cranks hurt the resale value of an LII? For sure.
Also when buying LeGrandes. Go by the serial #. There are guys out there that have replaced their original 1980's Legrande decals with Legrande II decals.Just because they like the looks of them............bb[This message was edited by Bobby Boggs on 02 June 2006 at 10:32 PM.] |
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Tony Prior
From:
Charlotte NC
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Posted 3 Jun 2006 1:27 am
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Bobby, my "Lashley Legrande" D10 is s/n 614L...
Ron Jr. dated it at approx 86 or 87..I would have no way of knowing if that is correct or not...
It has 4 hole Bellcranks..( lots of em') and like you so correctly stated, is not an issue...
Do you know when the L-2's arrived on the scene ? Or perhaps when the decals went from Legrande to Lashley Legrande ?
and finally, what the heck is the difference between a Legrande and a Lashley Legrande ?
I'm thinking nuthin'.... accept the Decal...
thanks
t[This message was edited by Tony Prior on 03 June 2006 at 02:28 AM.] |
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Bobby Boggs
From:
Upstate SC.
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Posted 3 Jun 2006 4:08 am
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Tony, A LeGrande is a short key head guitar.It had braces between the changer fingers,a larger changer axle and was set-up to have shorter pedal travel.The Lashley's are long key heads.However their were a few custom order short keyed Lashley LaGrandes, LeGrande II's and even one short keyed Lashley leGrande III that I know off.Hope this helps.
Yor guitar should be a 1990 model.I have # 686 and it was delivered Oct 26 1990. However because of my set-up it was held up till they got the bugs out of the 14 hole cranks.I have the 2nd one built with 14 hole cranks.Hal Rugg got the first.Here is my E9 set-up. The C6th is even more elaborate.This is why Ron wanted to use the 14 hole cranks.However many Lasheys where built after mine that have the 4 hole cranks. The LII decals started showing up in late 93 or early 94. Hope this helps....bb
LKR LKV LKR 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 RKL RKL2 RKR
F#___________________________________________________+G/G#
D#________________________________________-D/C#______+E
G#__________________+A
E__+F________+Eb_______+F#
B______-Bb/A_____+C#___+C#_-A
G#__________________+A_____-F#_________________ -G/F#
F#_____________________________________________ -F
E__+F________+Eb_______
D_________________________________________-C#
B______-Bb/A_____+C#_______-A
[This message was edited by Bobby Boggs on 03 June 2006 at 05:16 AM.] [This message was edited by Bobby Boggs on 03 June 2006 at 05:32 AM.] |
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Bobby Boggs
From:
Upstate SC.
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Posted 3 Jun 2006 4:20 am
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| The 7th string is also pulled from F# to G to G# with RKR). And the 8th string is pulled a full step with the C pedal.Sorry they don't show on the chart.You would have to play this guitar to beleive how soft it pedals to be this loaded.And it has standard pedal travel with all pedals and knees except the (RKR) [This message was edited by Bobby Boggs on 03 June 2006 at 05:36 AM.] |
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Tony Prior
From:
Charlotte NC
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Posted 3 Jun 2006 5:09 am
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Thanks Bobby
my E9th knee's are similar
1: +1
2: + 1/2
2:- 1/2
2: - 1
R+L 4+8
5: - 1/2
7: +1
9: - 1/2
10..rod removed from V knee shaft..
thanks
good stuff
t
[This message was edited by Tony Prior on 03 June 2006 at 02:28 PM.] |
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Roger Rettig
From:
Naples, FL
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Posted 3 Jun 2006 6:07 am
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My current Emmons (an LG111 D10 - #2085L) was delivered to me new in 2000.
I hadn't noticed whether it had 4-hole or 14s, but I had Buck Reid do a pedal change for me a couple of years later. While he was 'under' my guitar he noticed that a few of my bell-cranks were the older type. He asked if he could replace them with '14s' and keep the others himself. I have no idea why, but I was happy to oblige....
I do wonder if the 4-hole ones are inherently stronger. I had a problem with a 14-hole fracturing last year (thanks to Bobby B for identifying my problem, and to Bud Vanderberg for fixing it!!!)
Anyway, it seems that both types were still finding their way on to new guitars in 2000; or is there perhaps a reason for them to be used in a particular place on the guitar? If I hadn't relinquished my handful of four-hole ones, might that problem I had last year NOT have occurred?
RR |
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Tony Prior
From:
Charlotte NC
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Posted 3 Jun 2006 1:29 pm
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the problems I have with both of my Steel are on the top side 
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TPrior
TPrior Steel Guitar Homesite
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