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Topic: Rains Pedal Rod Question |
Andrew Driscoll
From:
Florida, USA
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Posted 16 Sep 2020 12:16 pm |
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I thought somebody could help me get on the right track with my Rains SD-10. Awesome guitar by the way. The guitar is new to me and I am adjusting it. The B pedal (3rd string) sometimes doesn’t return all the way back down to G# not because of over tuning (the changer can return all of the way) but because the pedal rod is catching on the cross rod. Is this the intended pedal rod linkage seen in the picture? Or was there some other hardware or different shaped rod originally? I think the problem is simply that the pull rods are too tight and are pulling the pedal rod too close to the cabinet and into the cross shaft. I think I need to give the pedal more travel at the pedal stop, back off the nylon nuts, and retune. My hope is that pedal rod wont’ be pulled up into the crossrod after the adjustment. Does this sound reasonable?
Also, are the springs you can see in the picture that pull the bell cranks toward the changer original? They look to me like someone might have installed them trying to fix an over tuning problem or something. Does anyone else have a rains that has them?
Finally, is the allen screw that is tapped into the pedal stop block simply to hold the pedal stop screw in place?
Last edited by Andrew Driscoll on 16 Sep 2020 12:48 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Paul Sutherland
From:
Placerville, California
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Posted 16 Sep 2020 12:42 pm
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My Rains does not have any springs and it works just fine. Your pictures are a bit too close up for me to decipher what I'm looking at.
I don't know where in Florida you are, but Curtis Hogue has taken over the Rains brand and he's a great guy to deal with. He's in Texas, I think somewhere outside of Dallas.
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It don't mean a thing if it ain't got that swing. |
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Andrew Driscoll
From:
Florida, USA
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Posted 16 Sep 2020 12:59 pm
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| If anyone knows how to contact Curtis Hogue I would be grateful for the info. |
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Paul Sutherland
From:
Placerville, California
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Posted 16 Sep 2020 1:02 pm
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The third picture that you added helps a great deal. What immediately stands out is that many of your pedal rods run into the changer at an angle. That can cause the problems you are experiencing. In particular it looks like the sixth string pull on the B pedal is not squared up with the changer. I suggest you stand at the keyhead end of the steel with the steel upside down and take a sight line to the changer. You then need to loosen each bellcrank for out of position rods and slide the bellcrank(s) until the have a straight line to the changer. And of course tighten the bellcrank(s) back down and test. And take off both of the springs. Do that and then report back.
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It don't mean a thing if it ain't got that swing. |
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Paul Sutherland
From:
Placerville, California
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Posted 16 Sep 2020 1:10 pm
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Curtis Hogue is listed as a member of the forum. You should be able to reach him through the info provided in the members list.
_________________
It don't mean a thing if it ain't got that swing. |
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Andrew Driscoll
From:
Florida, USA
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Posted 16 Sep 2020 1:16 pm
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| Thanks for the info Paul. I may need to contact him for some parts in the future. I might need to link to a video to show my exact issue. The rods are a mess but the issue I am having is the pedal rod hitting a cross rod. Maybe every 20th time it catches on the crossroad and returns a hair sharp. |
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Jon Light
From:
Saugerties, NY
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Posted 16 Sep 2020 1:22 pm
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Here's what I'd like to see, if you would -- a better angled view of this piece. Is that a cross shaft return stop? If so, I would adjust it, changing the angle so that the shaft and the pedal rod are clear of the interfering shaft. You will then need to adjust everything in the pull train to compensate for the change you have made. This means adjusting the nylon nut and maybe shortening the rod length at the connector down at the pedal.
Obvious caveat: this is a rough idea based on a rough, remote view of what's going on.
Last edited by Jon Light on 16 Sep 2020 1:24 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Danny Letz
From:
Old Glory,Texas, USA 79540
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Posted 16 Sep 2020 1:24 pm
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| Look at all the pedal rods. Maybe one of them is cut different & they have got crossed in as to where they go. |
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Danny Letz
From:
Old Glory,Texas, USA 79540
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Posted 16 Sep 2020 1:56 pm
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| To be more a little more descriptive, not all the pedal shafts have another cross shaft that close to them. On Zums, the ones that are that close, the crooks are kinda slash cut to provide clearance. If the pedals rods have been swapped out or just out of place to which pedal they go to, it could cause that problem. You may have to grind that one a bit. I doubt that Rains would send out a guitar like that. And that spring doesn’t belong there. |
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Danny Letz
From:
Old Glory,Texas, USA 79540
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Posted 16 Sep 2020 3:27 pm
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| For instance, the hook on pedal four doesn't look like it comes thru as far, although it has plenty room. Maybe it should be on the one you are having trouble with. Maybe your pedal rod numbers are mixed up. Do you see what i'm getting at? |
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John Swain
From:
Winchester, Va
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Posted 16 Sep 2020 3:43 pm
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| This looks like an early(pre-Gary Carpenter) Rains. I'll check my later Rains and see the diffefence and post a picture. I know there were some mods made to the early ones. |
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Andrew Driscoll
From:
Florida, USA
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Posted 16 Sep 2020 6:35 pm
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| Danny Letz wrote: |
| To be more a little more descriptive, not all the pedal shafts have another cross shaft that close to them. On Zums, the ones that are that close, the crooks are kinda slash cut to provide clearance. If the pedals rods have been swapped out or just out of place to which pedal they go to, it could cause that problem. You may have to grind that one a bit. I doubt that Rains would send out a guitar like that. And that spring doesn’t belong there. |
That is a good point. I know I double checked the pedal rod numbers but like you said it is possible that they were switched out or who knows what. |
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Andrew Driscoll
From:
Florida, USA
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Posted 16 Sep 2020 6:37 pm
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| John Swain wrote: |
| This looks like an early(pre-Gary Carpenter) Rains. I'll check my later Rains and see the diffefence and post a picture. I know there were some mods made to the early ones. |
Thanks John,I would certainly appreciate seeing a pic of another Rains even though it is a later model. It might give me a bit of guidance. |
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Andrew Driscoll
From:
Florida, USA
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Posted 16 Sep 2020 6:41 pm
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| Jon Light wrote: |
Here's what I'd like to see, if you would -- a better angled view of this piece. Is that a cross shaft return stop? If so, I would adjust it, changing the angle so that the shaft and the pedal rod are clear of the interfering shaft. You will then need to adjust everything in the pull train to compensate for the change you have made. This means adjusting the nylon nut and maybe shortening the rod length at the connector down at the pedal.
Obvious caveat: this is a rough idea based on a rough, remote view of what's going on. |
I think Jon Light might have found a part of the problem here. The part you indicated with the green arrow does seem to function as a cross rod stop. However, there isn’t one on the cross rod I am having the trouble with (the rod two above the one with the arrow). It is possible it is missing. |
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Gene Tani
From:
Pac NW
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Posted 16 Sep 2020 6:49 pm
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Did you ask whoever sold you the steel?
these cross shafts and pedal rods are ground down for clearance but hard to photograph
_________________
- keyless Sonny Jenkins laps stay in tune forever!; Carter PSG
- The secret sauce: polyester sweatpants to buff your picks, cheapo Presonus channel strip for preamp/EQ/compress/limiter, Diet Mountain Dew
Last edited by Gene Tani on 16 Sep 2020 7:16 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Andrew Driscoll
From:
Florida, USA
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Posted 16 Sep 2020 7:16 pm
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Gene,
Thanks that picture helps. I can clearly see the ground cross rod. Very interesting. Does your guitar have similar cross rod stops like the ones with the green arrow in the one of the previous posts? I'm trying to figure out if I'm missing one on my B pedal rod or if it is missing by design. Again thanks for the post. |
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Gene Tani
From:
Pac NW
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Posted 16 Sep 2020 7:39 pm
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I think you can get somebody with a bench grinder to bevel pedal rods if you don't have one, maybe that would be enough and you can leave cross shafts in there
Bigger pic
_________________
- keyless Sonny Jenkins laps stay in tune forever!; Carter PSG
- The secret sauce: polyester sweatpants to buff your picks, cheapo Presonus channel strip for preamp/EQ/compress/limiter, Diet Mountain Dew |
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Jon Light
From:
Saugerties, NY
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Posted 17 Sep 2020 3:54 am
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| Andrew Driscoll wrote: |
| there isn’t one on the cross rod I am having the trouble with (the rod two above the one with the arrow). It is possible it is missing. |
Ah -- for some reason I latched onto the shaft I'm pointing at as the problem one.
Obviously, a proper, "Rains-correct" solution is desirable. But if I were looking for a quick fix just for playability, I'd consider inserting something like a 1/4" shim underneath this spot, affixed to the body. And then, again, you'll need to make adjustments to the pull train to compensate.
Down & dirty, if you can't get a better solution or can't wait for it to arrive.
One downside of adjusting the return stop is that if you cannot adjust the pedal stop, you will have shortened the throw, with all the pull-train implications this may have.
(This time, depicting the wrong shaft is deliberate)
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Danny Letz
From:
Old Glory,Texas, USA 79540
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Posted 17 Sep 2020 4:23 am
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| You are dealing with a used instrument. Just because the pedal rods are numbered a certain way when you got it doesn’t mean they haven’t been moved around. If the number is stamped on the coupler, it could have been moved to another rod or someone could have swapped the rods for longer or shorter rods. Using Mr. Tani’s photo, examine the rods & how they fit. If two of them can be swapped & help your situation, do it even as just a test & then straighten the numbers out. You can always readjust the pedal height. At least when you get that problem solved, if that doesn’t fix it, you haven’t lost anything except a few minutes & you can move on. |
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Danny Letz
From:
Old Glory,Texas, USA 79540
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Posted 17 Sep 2020 4:56 am
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| The part that I would call a back slack adjuster that some of the green arrows point to doesn’t appear to be a stock Rains part. At least I’ve not seen these on the few Rains I’ve worked on. I’ve edited this because on zooming in on those parts, they look homemade & may be sort of a girdle for the spring & pin inside the cross shaft that holds the cross shaft in the frame. I don’t think they are an adjustment. My opinion only. |
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chuck lemasters
From:
Jacksonburg, WV
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Posted 17 Sep 2020 5:26 am
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deleted post
Last edited by chuck lemasters on 17 Sep 2020 6:18 am; edited 1 time in total |
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chuck lemasters
From:
Jacksonburg, WV
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Posted 17 Sep 2020 5:33 am
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| On my Rains, there is some clearance providing slack before the pedaled rod begins to pull the cross shaft. Looks to me like you are on the right track by loosening the nylon tuning nuts for that pedal, allowing for some slack in the linkage. The pedal stop adjustment bolt would then have to be screwed in a little, which would allow the cross shaft to be pulled farther. That stop bolt is screwed nearly all the way in on my guitar. Any extra length in the rod connecting to the pedal could then be shortened on the pedal end of the rod to level the pedals. The allen screw locks the position of the cross shaft stop bolt. Discard the extra springs. |
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Gene Tani
From:
Pac NW
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Posted 17 Sep 2020 4:08 pm grinding pedal rods, hook end
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i found another pedal rod that shows how far you can go in bending and grinding them for clearance, tho this is about as much metal as I would want to take off
_________________
- keyless Sonny Jenkins laps stay in tune forever!; Carter PSG
- The secret sauce: polyester sweatpants to buff your picks, cheapo Presonus channel strip for preamp/EQ/compress/limiter, Diet Mountain Dew |
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Gene Tani
From:
Pac NW
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Posted 18 Sep 2020 11:48 pm
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also found this thread about bending pedal rods (to solve different problem, the hook digging into the cabinet, so may not be relevant here)
https://bb.steelguitarforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=318932
_________________
- keyless Sonny Jenkins laps stay in tune forever!; Carter PSG
- The secret sauce: polyester sweatpants to buff your picks, cheapo Presonus channel strip for preamp/EQ/compress/limiter, Diet Mountain Dew |
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Danny Letz
From:
Old Glory,Texas, USA 79540
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Posted 19 Sep 2020 4:02 pm
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| So Andrew, did you get it fixed, what fixed it? |
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