Casted End plates

Johnie King · From: Tennessee, USA

Why did the steel guitar companyâ€™s every stop using casted End plates?

Put these on a coat hanger an tap them with a small hammer an make sure you have ear
Protection they ring like a bell.

Johnie King · From: Tennessee, USA

Yes I need the two two to match these on the key head end!!

Marty Broussard · From: Broussard, Louisiana, USA

Johnny,
IF the castings situation for the Steelguitar manufacturers is similar to the industrial valve industry the steelguitar makers were struggling to obtain quality castings on a regular basis so they were forced to go a different route. For us, the majority of valve castings are coming from other countries because there are limited (reliable) foundries remaining in the US compared to decades ago. Just a hunch....
_________________
RETIRED

"Technique is really the elimination of the unnecessary..it is a constant effort to avoid any personal impediment or obstacle to achieve the smooth flow of energy and intent" Yehudi Menuhin

Paddy Long · From: Christchurch, New Zealand

Well I don't agree that cast endplates sound better than a machined one at all ... I have two Zum Hybrids which are my main guitars ..a 2008 with cast endplates and a 2014 with machined enplates ...Bruce custom built both of them for me along with my setups ....so both guitars are pretty much identical apart from the colours, and of course the end plates !!
While both guitars sound fantastic, the Red Burl D10 with the machined endplates is an incredible tone machine, and has something really special going on !! ( you have to play the guitar to feel it :-}) ...I have played this guitar a few times at the Dallas steel show and have always received some fairly glowing comments on it's tone !!
My Black guitar sounds pretty amazing too despite the cast endplates :-} !!!!!
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14'Zumsteel Hybrid D10 9+9
08'Zumsteel Hybrid D10 9+9
94' Franklin Stereo D10 9+8
Telonics, Peterson, Steelers Choice, Benado, Lexicon, Red Dirt Cases.

Jim Pitman · From: Waterbury Ctr. VT 05677 USA

I have a pair of cast aluminum Emmons push-pull D10 end plates with leg sockets drilled. They need grinding and polishing.
It's a start. All I need now is about 10k$ worth of individual parts and I'll be able to finish building the guitar.

Johnie King · From: Tennessee, USA

Yes Jim all the parts $$$$$$ !!!!! too build a push adds up super fast.
But the end plates is a very good Start.

Jim Pitman · From: Waterbury Ctr. VT 05677 USA

Johnie, do you have a drawing that documents what the final dimensions of a PP end plate should be?
I see there's quite a bit of draft in the casting and I assume it needs squaring up in addition to making the surface smoother.

Jack Stoner · From: Kansas City, MO

The Franklin's were cast, by the same company that did the Sho-Bud castings

On my late 82 D-10, The end plates, keyheads, necks and floor pedals were all cast.

Greg Forsyth · From: Colorado, USA

Johnie,
There end plates on that table top?
Sorry my eyes got lost on the magnificent raw edge table tops joined by butterflys w/ a stream running through it. Looks to be maple, maybe. Fishing good in the stream?

Ross Shafer · From: Petaluma, California

Casting is hard to justify in small quantities. Between the miniscule demand for pedal steels and the loss of so many small casting vendors...casting end plates is an expensive and logistically difficult proposition.

I for one would love to be using them!

Kelcey ONeil · From: Sevierville, TN

End plates are not the only factor in the difference between cast and machined components. Necks and keyheads are probably even bigger contributors, particularly necks. It is true that the initial tooling cost for making cast parts is a factor, but in the long run, castings are almost always cheaper and require less finish work( good ones do anyway!) than parts machined from billet. Castings can be made quickly in batches, and require only minimal machine time afterwards, compared to milling the shape of the entire part from billet. In my opinion, most builders have ran things hand to mouth for a long time, and keep little to no parts inventory on hand. I think this is part of the reason the major builders stay back ordered for a year+: guitars can be assembled very quickly if finished components are on hand. Since castings are done in batches, the larger the order, the lower the price. For instance,100 cast parts may well cost less than 100 machined parts, but 10 machined parts would cost less than 10 cast parts. Regardless of which may be better consistently, all the great tone machines of the past like Push Pulls and Franklins used cast parts. While some of those were better than others, Iâ€™ve never heard of anyone who thought they lacked tone, while it there is at least somewhat regular dissatisfaction with the best of newer guitars. Just something to chew on.

Kelcey ONeil · From: Sevierville, TN

End plates are not the only factor in the difference between cast and machined components. Necks and keyheads are probably even bigger contributors, particularly necks. It is true that the initial tooling cost for making cast parts is a factor, but in the long run, castings are almost always cheaper and require less finish work( good ones do anyway!) than parts machined from billet. Castings can be made quickly in batches, and require only minimal machine time afterwards, compared to milling the shape of the entire part from billet. In my opinion, most builders have ran things hand to mouth for a long time, and keep little to no parts inventory on hand. I think this is part of the reason the major builders stay back ordered for a year+: guitars can be assembled very quickly if finished components are on hand. Since castings are done in batches, the larger the order, the lower the price. For instance,100 cast parts may well cost less than 100 machined parts, but 10 machined parts would cost less than 10 cast parts. Regardless of which may be better consistently, all the great tone machines of the past like Push Pulls and Franklins used cast parts. While some of those were better than others, Iâ€™ve never heard of anyone who thought they lacked tone, while it there is at least somewhat regular dissatisfaction with the best of newer guitars. Just something to chew on.

Doug Earnest · From: Branson, MO USA

Finding a foundry that can pour GOOD pit free castings of the proper alloy in a reasonable quantity is indeed a problem.

In the late 1970's ZumSteel was fortunate to find a very good craftsman who owned the local small foundry. He would pour reasonable quantities, like 50 sets of endplates at a time or 100 necks. His health failed, no one took over the foundry. The next best somewhat local foundry capable (and willing) to do good work wants to do 2000 pounds of the alloy in one lot....that is a bunch of steel guitar parts.

Cast parts are relatively cheap, at least for the raw cast part. There is a great deal of surface preparation, machining, and finishing involved after that. And no matter who is pouring the parts there will always be some that are not suitable for polishing due to pits. You usually don't find that out until most of the machining is done and you have already invested time and money.

With the improvements in CNC machining centers and the associated new technology in cutters you can start with a billet and have a perfect part come out of the machine every time, and it does not really take much more time than messing with a cast part once you figure each and every step involved.

Cast endplates are still used on the Stage One and Encore guitars because they end up being powder coat painted so we can live with the pits, they blend right in with the textured finish.

People used to accept the fact that maybe there would be a little pit in a polished part. Sho Bud sold a lot of them, so did others........but they were the best that could be had at the time. I don't think that will work today. People want it perfect.

That is my take on it from personal experience. I don't know that there is a great difference in sound from one vs. the other. The particular pieces of wood that the guitar is made from will make more difference.

I know I don't play well enough to worry about that little difference in tone in the slightest bit. No one in the audience ever cared about it either and they never will.

Jerry Overstreet · From: Louisville Ky

Lack of cast or machined from billet aluminum end plates doesn't seem to have hurt Mullen guitars.

When I was considering my first Mullen, my steel player acquaintances warned me that steel end plates would kill the sustain of a pedal steel. Then I heard Tommy White and Wimpy playing Mullen guitars on TNN which debunked that myth for me. I've owned 3 of them and would love to have another one of those Mullen with chrome plated steel end plates. So much for aluminum of either alloy.

Jack Stoner · From: Kansas City, MO

Jim Pitman · From: Waterbury Ctr. VT 05677 USA

Nowadays if you want to fabricate something you have to do it yourself I find. "Makers" can't afford to pay someone else's profits.
So.....cast some end plates....bend some legs..,etc.

Johnie King · From: Tennessee, USA

Well said Jim Pitman I agree woo your post for sure.

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