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Topic: Using Paypal For Forum Purchases |
Dave Grafe
From:
Hudson River Valley NY
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Posted 9 Aug 2020 11:40 am |
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Just a reminder to all present that if you use PayPal to purchase goods here on the forum DO NOT use the "Friends and Family" option to send your money, no matter how sweetly the seller asks you to do so. While the usual rap will be that it saves them money, the actual truth of the matter is that it saves them from PayPal's buyer protection policies, and you will have no recourse whatsever if the deal goes sour.
In this context "Friends and Family" ultimately translates to "scoundrels and thieves." Buyer beware! One might have thought this would be a section "sticky" by now. |
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Jim Saunders
From:
Houston, Texas, U.S.A.
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Posted 9 Aug 2020 12:30 pm Hey There
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| Dave, I quite agree. I don't like cheating in any "innocent form". Back in the day, I wouldn't let my kids lie about their age to get in a movie cheaper. I taught them their integrity was worth more than 50 cents. Paypal is doing a service and they deserve to be paid their small fee. Likewise, be sure to include your donation to B0b for any sales. |
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Dave Grafe
From:
Hudson River Valley NY
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Posted 9 Aug 2020 12:32 pm
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| Jim Saunders what you said! You can't buy integrity. |
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Jack Stoner
From:
Kansas City, MO
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Posted 9 Aug 2020 1:08 pm
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I've sold items both ways. Its the buyers option.
I have never cheated anyone. Everything I've sold is as described and many times better. I ship out same or next day after payment and always send tracking data. My prices are low - "I don't have anything gold plated". There may be some sellers that are not on the up and up, but its not me. |
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Eric Dahlhoff
From:
Point Arena, California
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Posted 9 Aug 2020 2:09 pm PP fees
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Sometimes I offer to split the fee with a buyer. PayPal is a service & I don't mind paying for it.
_________________
"To live outside the law you must be honest." (Bob Dylan) |
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Dave Grafe
From:
Hudson River Valley NY
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Posted 9 Aug 2020 3:05 pm
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| I agree, Eric, that is really the fairest option if both parties are willing. |
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forrest klott
From:
Grand Rapids Mi USA
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Posted 9 Aug 2020 4:24 pm
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| FWIW I don’t think I’ve ever had anyone turn me down I when I’ve offered to pay the fees after they initially request friends and family. |
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Jim Saunders
From:
Houston, Texas, U.S.A.
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Posted 9 Aug 2020 4:31 pm Hey There
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| I usually just offer to pay the fee. Usually no more than $3.00. No big deal and I've kept my honor. |
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Al Miller
From:
Waxahachie Texas
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Posted 9 Aug 2020 4:42 pm Now You Tell Me !!
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YEA BROTHER IM FEELING EVERY WORD OF THIS POST !!
I Recently purchased a very expensive steel from here & I got Raped!! I have no recourse with pay pal cause the guy ask for friends and family to waive the fees ..
this is a very small community and in my case this feller will pay for his dishonesty in the long run ! I could have bought a turd knowing I was going to have to put more money in it for several hundred dollars less than I paid ... as well I bet he didn't even send a donation to this forum for allowing him to be able to mislead me into a sale ..
its all through life in every aspect of it these days so we shouldn't be surprised when some clown pulls this crap .
BOO
_________________
AL (BOO) Miller
Mullen D10
76 Emmons P/P
2022 65 Emmons Resound P/P D10 |
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Jim Saunders
From:
Houston, Texas, U.S.A.
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Posted 9 Aug 2020 7:25 pm Hey There
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| Dave, I brought up this subject in an earlier post and got quite a few favorable responses. But, it's good to air the subject again. A good topic to ponder. |
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Dave Meis
From:
Olympic Peninsula, Washington, USA
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Posted 9 Aug 2020 7:58 pm
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I've only bought 2 items here where they asked for F&F, and I just paid the fee by sending them the difference so they got their asking price. I did it for my own protection.
A worker is worthy of their hire..unless you mail a personal check, you're going to pay a percentage.
Last edited by Dave Meis on 10 Aug 2020 10:44 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Jeremy Threlfall
From:
now in Western Australia
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Garry Vanderlinde
From:
CA
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Posted 9 Aug 2020 8:53 pm
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Don't you guys ever watch the Judge Judy show? If you did, you would never trust Friends and Family.
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Asa Brosius
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Posted 10 Aug 2020 3:40 am
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The friends and fam option has been easy for me, as a buyer and seller- the problem you're describing isn't in the payment method- seems like the problem is verifying the 'friend' part of the equation. Sending personal or cashier's checks through mail has been the standard for decades before.
I see no virtue in participating in paypal's fee structure. The company is an immensely successful billion plus dollar enterprise, with a public record of unethical business practices, and essentially a monopoly. The F&F option is provided by the company itself- no one's gaming any system here. Comparing their fees to Bob's request for a percentage of sales here on the forum doesn't really track for me. This is a unique place on the internet, and an extremely valuable service he provides for steel folks, and at this point in our late stage capitalism, the one time tiny fee to join is ridiculously generous.
All that said, if a buyer/seller has any doubt, obviously they should always proceed with and pay for as much caution/insurance as feels right to them. Getting burned is no fun- the one time I was objectively lied to involved Bobbe Seymour- he was so loved by 'the community' my %100 verifiable complaints fell on deaf ears. |
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Mike DiAlesandro
From:
Kent, Ohio
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Posted 10 Aug 2020 3:57 am
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Perhaps bOb should start a new section "Gripes", in the Classified Ads section?
I feel that this thread is just a continuation (with a different twist) of the the earlier thread Dave started about his Emmons deal that bOb locked up.
Mike D |
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Johnie King
From:
Tennessee, USA
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Posted 10 Aug 2020 5:13 am
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Wow Asa I believe you missed your calling you could or still good be a successful lawyer.
Your post on pay pal is spot on!!! |
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Jon Jaffe
From:
Austin, Texas
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Posted 10 Aug 2020 5:16 am
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| F&F has nothing to with bad deals. Good deals on the Forum are made by people who take their honesty seriosly. I suspect that less than 5% of deals are bad. And that has nothing to do with PayPal. |
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Rick Barnhart
From:
Arizona, USA
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Posted 10 Aug 2020 5:20 am
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It boils down to trust. By and large this community is full of people we can trust, but like any community, there are exceptions. I’ve sent out items several times, before receiving payment. After a while you sort of know who you can trust, and I simply don’t do business with those I don’t. I’ve yet to be burned.
Using F&F is tantamount to opting out of insurance. If F&F is a hard requirement of the seller, perhaps it should give you pause.
_________________
Clinesmith consoles D-8/6 5 pedal, D-8 3 pedal & A25 Frypan, Pettingill Teardrop, & P8 Deluxe. |
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Andrew Wright
From:
Indiana, USA
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Posted 10 Aug 2020 5:22 am
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Since PayPal's policy change, the fees are not refunded even if the item is returned.
So while I do tend to prefer avoiding F&F, expecting a trial period on a $5000 steel guitar followed by a full refund if you decide "it's just not for you" isn't feasible unless the purchase was via F&F. |
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K Maul
From:
Hadley, NY/Hobe Sound, FL
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Posted 10 Aug 2020 5:56 am
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I always requested the friends and family option because I was unaware that it didn’t cover any problems. I will no longer request that option if I sell anything on the forum. I’ve never had a problem either buying or selling but I don’t mind paying a small fee or splitting it with the buyer or whatever for some amount of protection. I like PayPal even though I do understand it’s a corrupt and abusive system. But almost everything is so we just have to use it with eyes open. I certainly don’t like the idea of sending a money order or a check through the mail which is what you had to do back in the Jurassic period.
_________________
KEVIN MAUL: Airline, Beard, Clinesmith, Donner, Evans, Excel, Fender, Fluger, GFI, Gibson, Hilton, Ibanez, Justice, K+K, Live Strings, MOYO, National, Oahu, Peterson, Quilter, Rickenbacher, Sho~Bud, Supro, TC, Ultimate, VHT, Williams, X-otic, Yamaha, ZKing. |
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Jim Saunders
From:
Houston, Texas, U.S.A.
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Posted 10 Aug 2020 6:35 am Hey There
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| I don't think being successful gives one the right to steal from them, even though Robin Hood became successful for just that. But, he was a fictional character and his last name was Hood. If we applied that logic, I could go shoplifting at Kroger, my successful grocery store. |
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Asa Brosius
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Posted 10 Aug 2020 7:09 am
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| Kroger doesn't offer a friends and family checkout. paypal does. Both buyer and seller agree to use the fully legal service or not. If 'rights' are a concern, take a look at paypal's business history, litigation record, and the terms of service disclosure we've agreed to. |
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Jim Saunders
From:
Houston, Texas, U.S.A.
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Posted 10 Aug 2020 7:13 am Hey There
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| Think of the irony: the seller's ad, says, "payment by postal money order, cashier's check, or Paypal, friends and family" |
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Leo Grassl
From:
Madison TN
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Posted 10 Aug 2020 7:19 am
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Asa nailed it. And as another member pointed out this is a community and it is made up mostly of good honest people. I’m not going to stop trusting people as a rule because 2 percent of the folks on here are out to get the big end of an ugly deal. Oh and PayPal’s fee is NOT “$3.00â€. It’s 2.9 percent of the amount of money being paid. It adds up and gets very expensive. If you don’t know your way around the forum and don’t know who to trust than by all means protect yourself but I think it is unfair to propose that using F&F is inappropriate under all circumstances.
Dave you got burned recently by a member here who refused to make it right and that is a shame. For that I am sorry but that’s Just one bad apple.
Last edited by Leo Grassl on 10 Aug 2020 10:29 am; edited 2 times in total |
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J R Rose
From:
Keota, Oklahoma, USA
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Posted 10 Aug 2020 7:21 am
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I agree with Kevin Maul in the above post. I too did not know if you use F&F it exempts you from a recourse. I will be glad to pay the fee from now on. Is a few dollars gong to make or break you on say a $3000 guitar. Thankfully, I have never had a problem other than being HACKED by a THIEF. They hacked my pay-pal account but my Discover Card security stopped payment so I did not lose my $2500. But it was SCARY. And this forum is the GREATEST thing since Cheerios. b0b has and does us all a great SERVICE. Send him a Christmas Bonus just for being b0b. Thanks, J.R.
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NOTHING..Sold it all. J.R. Rose |
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