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Topic: Swelling in and bending simultaneously |
Curt Trisko
From:
St. Paul, Minnesota, USA
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Posted 23 Jul 2020 7:17 am |
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I have been struggling with something that I have been doing a million times since I started playing - beginning phrases by swelling and bending at the same time. It has only become an issue because I have a few slow songs with a buddy where we are at the stage of recording them. I listened to a couple of our practice sessions that we recorded with a room mic and man am I inconsistent with it.
I don't think I can blame the microphone. I know that swelling in and bending at the same time is an imprecise thing unless you're a master, yet I think the reason I was surprised by it is that hearing the sound coming directly off the strings skews my perception of what is coming out of the amp. The steel, his acoustic guitar, and his voice are the only instruments, so there is nothing to mask the spikes or dead spots in volume.
The issue isn't just coming in too loud or coming in too quiet. It's also trying to time the bend correctly within the swell. If you bend evenly, then the first fraction of a second will be lost in the low volume and the first thing the listener hears will be something in between pitches. If you bend too slowly, it sounds sappy. If you bend too quickly as you swell, then it sound like you are slurring into the chord instead of bending and the effect you are going for is lost.
Is there a technique for correcting this? |
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Fred Treece
From:
California, USA
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Posted 23 Jul 2020 11:10 am
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| If you are talking about the “swell from nowhereâ€, like guitar players do, then pick the note pretty hard and a little ahead of the beat while it’s still silent, so the note you are bending from swells in first before you start the bend. Picking hard is the counterintuitive thing, because you probably want a soft sounding little phrase. If you pick with a light attack, the sound will die out before you get any sustain out of the note you bent into. I hear steel players doing this too, so it’s not just some phoney guitar player trick. |
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Curt Trisko
From:
St. Paul, Minnesota, USA
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Posted 23 Jul 2020 2:30 pm
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| The hard part is to then execute a slow bend while you're doing it and consistently hit it right. Because of the sound coming off the strings, it's hard to judge how close I got it until go back and listen to what the mic picked up. |
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Fred Treece
From:
California, USA
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Posted 23 Jul 2020 2:51 pm
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| Are you wearing headphones? |
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Curt Trisko
From:
St. Paul, Minnesota, USA
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Posted 23 Jul 2020 5:28 pm
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| Fred Treece wrote: |
| Are you wearing headphones? |
No, we'll be recording it as a live performance in the near future and then maybe doing studio recording at his friend's place later.
Last spring I played with a band doing a Willie Nelson tribute show. On one of the songs, it opened with just the vocals and then the rest of the band came in all on the same beat. I accentuated that entrance with a slow bend too. We nailed it exactly and the bend had the effect of really drawing out that sweet moment. I'm trying to create something similar here except there are no other instruments to cover the first few moments of the beat. |
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Fred Treece
From:
California, USA
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Posted 23 Jul 2020 7:51 pm
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Well that explains hearing the “sound coming off the stringsâ€. I couldn’t figure what you meant. At a volume level so low that picked strings are audible with the VP all the way down, I’d say the Swell From Nowhere is just about impossible. With only an acoustic guitar for cover, maybe a bend/swell from a Very Distant Place is more realistic?
I don’t know enough to advise on technique, but with this kind of thing I think it is important to play in as close to precise rhythm as you can, or it will all sound very rubato, especially in a duo. Start and end your phrase on a definite part of the beat, unless you want it to sound like it’s free of a rhythmic pulse. |
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Donny Hinson
From:
Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.
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Posted 24 Jul 2020 2:40 pm
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| It sounds like you're talking about doing the "swelling and bending" on every phrase. Is that the case? |
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Curt Trisko
From:
St. Paul, Minnesota, USA
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Posted 24 Jul 2020 3:02 pm
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| Donny Hinson wrote: |
| It sounds like you're talking about doing the "swelling and bending" on every phrase. Is that the case? |
Just a few times - and one time to open the steel part of a song. One time comes immediately after doing a harmonic, which adds to the difficulty. |
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Brian Fox
From:
Minnesota, USA
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Posted 25 Jul 2020 4:17 am
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Kurt, sorry I am not trying to hijack the thread. You live in St.Paul?
I am from there, what band are you in locally? PM me if you want. |
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Bob Hoffnar
From:
Austin, Tx
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Posted 25 Jul 2020 7:29 am
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Obsessive practice with a compulsive attention to detail will do it. I had lessons with Charleton where he would have me play a simple bend over and over again while he would let me know if I was getting close or not.
_________________
Bob |
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Curt Trisko
From:
St. Paul, Minnesota, USA
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Posted 25 Jul 2020 9:29 am
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| Fred Treece wrote: |
| Well that explains hearing the “sound coming off the stringsâ€. I couldn’t figure what you meant. At a volume level so low that picked strings are audible with the VP all the way down, I’d say the Swell From Nowhere is just about impossible. |
I meant the opposite. That when the volume pedal is all the way 'off,' I hear the sound coming directly off the strings and it screws up my judgment for timing the bend while applying the volume pedal.[/quote] |
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Fred Treece
From:
California, USA
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Posted 25 Jul 2020 11:25 am
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We meant the same thing, I just said it backwards.  |
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Brandon Schafer
From:
Indiana, USA
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Posted 26 Jul 2020 4:50 am
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I've had a recording session reveal a similar thing to me before. What I eventually took from it was that I was actually "over using" my volume pedal.
It forced me to clean up my technique a bit and be more selective/thoughtful about when a volume pedal swell is applied. Also, lessening the intensity of the swell can help.
What I've just shared may not be helpful if you HAVE to keep that swell to achieve what you're doing, but I can sure understand the dilemma you're expressing from a past experience of my own. |
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Curt Trisko
From:
St. Paul, Minnesota, USA
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Posted 26 Jul 2020 1:59 pm
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| Brandon Schafer wrote: |
| What I've just shared may not be helpful if you HAVE to keep that swell to achieve what you're doing, but I can sure understand the dilemma you're expressing from a past experience of my own. |
Because the only other instrument is the acoustic guitar, if I don't swell in it sounds startling and jarring. I think Bob is right and that this is probably one of those things that separates amateurs from professionals. |
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