JAZZ chords

ed packard · From: Show Low AZ

Recently, there were a couple of threads about the location of certain "jazz" voicings on the E9 neck. If those two "cats" did not know, then there must be a bunch of others in the same boat, even extending to the more common chord structures.

This inspired me to modify my PSG/stringed instrument solutions program to address the problem. I used Arnie Berle's guitar chords work for the reference. Next time I go down the mountain to the big book store, I will add the keyboard voicings.

The input to the program is the tuning(s),setup, and the desired chord.

The output drom the program is a neck view of the location of the notes/intervals/midi numbers.

The notes may be in either all bs, all #s, per chord (F#,G,G# etc.), 1st octave only, 2nd octave only, or two octave seven tone structure, or enharmonic (F#-Gb).

The intervals may be in 1st octave, 2nd octave, either octave (3-b11), per chord (b5,5,#5).

The results could be packaged in one of those guitar case size reference books.

Would this kind of thing be useful?

Any folks that put out lessons/teaching/reference materials interested in persuing this?

Dave Mudgett · From: Central Pennsylvania and Gallatin, Tennessee

I think this would be useful. For guitar, I also find Arnie Berle's "Chords and Progressions for Jazz and Popular Guitar" very useful, and I also like Ed McGuire's "Guitar Fingerboard Harmony". These are more than chord dictionaries, but discuss chord usage, voice leading, reharmonization, and other important things. I'd love to see something comparable for pedal steel, E9/C6 or universal.

David L. Donald · From: Koh Samui Island, Thailand

Eds check out Trap Truly's C6 chord chart.
It does similar things.

But I am SURE your E9 version will be most usefull to us all.

ed packard · From: Show Low AZ

Dave...The J&P guitar-Berle is the one that I used for the JAZZ voicings.

DD...No cigar on that one = list for one tuning and one setup...no flexible "voicing" consideration. Karlis A. provided a "solver" that allowed entering your setup, and getting note locations...

My approach has about 25 of the PSG setups to choose from, about 200 scale types to choose from,..you can either enter a chord name and get location of all intervals in the named chord (Am13b5b9 for example), or enter the notes and get the locations in notes (all in bs or #s or both (enharmonic) or per chord/scale root, and the chord name (get some strange ones). the locations are in "neck view", and in notes, intervals, and MIDI NOTE NUMBERS.

What I have just added, because of the forum questions, is the "voicing selections" of the JAZZ guitar players. These voicings are those 3,4,&5 string chords that use selected intervals to represent the complex chords like 13b9 on fewer strings than intervals. It became apparent that these were not common knowledge...which intervals to leave out of what type chord, what intervals to "cheat" with (using a 3 in the place of the 11th that is left out of the 13th), etc..

These JAZZ voicings are now included, and you can enter your own also.

I don't play out, don't do merchandising, don't run a store...all that would get in the way of doing these fun things, and "stuff" in other fields.

[This message was edited by ed packard on 09 May 2006 at 07:52 AM.]

ed packard · From: Show Low AZ

After playing with the program, and staring at the results for a while, the pattern came thru:

The open strings on a six string standard guitar are a m7 chord (with the exception of string 5 = 4 or 11.

The JAZZ chords in Berle's book are almost all within a 4 fret range = + and - two frets.

The changer in todays PSGs can handle + and -two halftones per string.

Conclusion 1:If one wants, they can tune to a m7 chord (with or without the 4-11 string in the mix) and have most if not all of these JAZZ chords available in the preferred voicings.

Conclusion 2: VIm7 = I6, so the 6th based tunings will only require the addition of the + & - 2 fret pulls to get the desired chords/voicings.

Some of the "stretch"
chords touted by Ted Greene are another matter.

David L. Donald · From: Koh Samui Island, Thailand

Now the question is implementing physical logic
to make the steels ergonomics
allow the body to get those pulls
in a way that makes musical sense.

I am working on it.

[This message was edited by David L. Donald on 11 May 2006 at 10:11 AM.]

ed packard · From: Show Low AZ

It seems like a “thing to do” to catalogue the JAZZ chords for E9, C6, E9/B6 Uni, etc. and see how they fall on the different tunings/setups. Feel free to interact, correct, debate, add your thoughts, etc..

Let’s look first at the four tone, repeat every octave chords.
The basic ones are the ones related to scalar harmony. To show the methodology, I will use the PST 13 series tuning structure. It is basically the E9/B6 universal tuning with a 6th added for string 12, C# used instead of D# on top, and the top strings used in the C6 order as opposed to the E9 order.

The changes are not much different from E9…P3 & P4 are the differences that give the 13 series changes.

The chords are given for fret 8 = C for the “ODD” scale interval chords, and fret 10 for the “EVEN” scale interval chords.

E9, A6, C6, and E9/B6 uni chords will be added as this rant progresses.
If I don’t get lazy, it will include the “advanced” JAZZ chords for the above tunings.

The following format will be used:
The first colm is the string number.
The second colm gives the notes of the sequential strings for four tones.
The third colm gives the chord type and its relationship to the scale (degree).
The fourth colm gives the intervals re the chord root.
The sixth colm gives the halftone separation of the intervals in the chord.
Just as the intervals set the chord free from a given key, so do the halftone separations set the chord free from the chord degree label.

In the key of C, they are:
Based upon “ODD” scale intervals (think fret Cool

as the roots, and having the top notes as 7s of some sort…P3 activated.

1. A
2. E
3. D
4. C,D,E,A
5. A,C,D,E _____ XIII (or VI) m7s4____ = R,3,4,5 _____ = 3,2,2
6. F,A,C,D _____= XI (or IV) 6 _______ = R,3,5,6______= 4,3,2
7. D,F,A,C _____= IX (or II) m7_______= R,b3,5,b7____ = 3,4,3
8. B,D,F,A _____= VIIm7b5___________= R,b3,b5,b7 __ = 3,3,4
9. G,B,D,F _____= V7________________= R,3,5,b7_____= 4,3,3
10. E,G,B,D_____ = IIIm7______________= R,b3,5,b7___ = 3,4,3
11. C,E,G,B_____ = IM7_______________= R,3,5,7_____= 4,3,4
12. A,C,E,G_____ = XIII (or VI) m7______= R,b3,5,b7___= 3,4,3
13. F,A,C,E_____ = XI (or IV) M7 _______= R,3,5,7_____= 4,3,4
14. C,F,A,C

And, based upon “EVEN” scale intervals (think fret 10) as the roots, and having the top notes as 7s of some sort…P3,P4,R> activated.

1. C
2. Gb
3. F
4. D,
5. B,D,F,_____= XIII (or VII) mb5__ = R,b3,b5_____= 3,3
6. G,B,D,F___ = XII (or V) 7 ______ = R,3,5,b7_____= 4,3,3
7. E,G,B,D___= X (or III) m7_______= R,b3,5,b7____= 3,4,3
8. C,E,G,B___= VIII (or I) M7______= R,3,5,b7_____= 4,3,4
9. A,C,E,G___= VIm7_____________= R,b3,5,b7____= 3,4,3
10. F,A,C,E ___= IVM7____________= R,b3,5,7_____= 4,3,4
11. D,F,A,C___= IIm7_____________= R,b3,5,b7____= 3,4,3
12. B,D,F,A___= XIII (orVII) m7b5__= R,b3,b5,b7___= 3,3,4
13. G,B,D,F___= XII (or V) 7_______= R,3,5,b7_____= 4,3,3
14. D,G,B,D___= II6s4(5)

The BASIC types of four tone single octave chords needed are:
M7, 7, m7, m7b5.

These become: IM7, IIm7, IIIm7, IVM7, V7, VIm7, VIIm7b5.

With these, the major scale can be harmonized in four tone, adjacent interval (close harmony) chords. By using “skip grips” the 3rd and 7s may be chosen over the 5s and so forth for use with the 5,6,&7 tone chord names, which are also available above if the pattern is continued.

You may never see a VIII, X, XII, XIV chord…they are shown to illustrate the pattern.

The string numbers given are those on my 14 string E69/A6/B69 tuning, with the 13 series setup.

For the “ODD” interval chords, the first letter after the string # is the note on that string, at fret 8 with P3 activated.

For the “EVEN” interval chords, the first letter given after the string # is the note on that string at fret 10 with P3 & P4 activated.

The chords given for the tuning setup shown are in an easy to remember order and location; the pattern is intuitive to those that know the C major scale.

These basic chords may be altered/modified by using the 3rd as b3,3,or s4; the 5th as b5,5,#5; the 7th as M7, b7, or bb7=6…these will be the changes (pedals and levers) applied to get the desired chord types.

If you are starting from the E9, C6, A6, B6, or ??? the principle will be the same.

Sorry folks, just can't stand the ragged appearence of the formatting...if you want this "stuff" e-mail me and I will send an copy in WORD.

[This message was edited by ed packard on 19 May 2006 at 09:34 AM.]

Jim Cohen · From: Philadelphia, PA

Ed, you are amazing. When I die I want to come back as you.

b0b · From: Cloverdale, CA, USA

Be careful what you wish for!

ed packard · From: Show Low AZ

Jim C...Naah, you don't want to do that...you would end up as a scruffy old curmudgeon, with no hair, a big back porch, a banjo (and other stringed things), a rocking chair, a jug, a shotgun, a dog (hound), assorted aches and pains, zero interest in performing, and waiting for Burt Reynolds and company to come by (think Deliverance).

Come to think of it, you would have a big front porch also...no lap steels here!

And as for you b0b...don't you think that you should be ashamed of yourself for providing a way for all these folk to have arguments with each other in a public venue? This is the internet equivalent of bar room brawls on occasion.

ed packard · From: Show Low AZ

Oh yeah Jim, and be spastic also (I just double posted)...managed to do that even with flood control activated.

[This message was edited by ed packard on 13 May 2006 at 07:38 AM.]

ed packard · From: Show Low AZ

The E9 is a pain to try to put into a simple system re chord charts…probably because it “grew” patch upon patch. The six string A tuning and I were doing just fine, and then someone played Steel Guitar Rag using a six string E tuning. Then folk started adding notes and strings to all the tunings. Some went in the 6th direction, as in A6; some went in the b7 direction, as in E7. Then Emmons and Day further muddied the waters.

The E tunings started as E,B,E,G#,B,E = R,5,R,3,5,R, a nice simple E chord. Then E,B,D,E,G#,B,E = R,5,b7,R,3,5,R…still a nice simple four tone chord structure. Some used a C# instead of the D and finger pulled the b7, so they had an E6/C#m7, and an E7.

Here come the skips and grips to avoid the b7 when it was not wanted. It got worse…someone added the F# ..E,B,D,E,F#,G#,B,E = R,5,b7,R,2-9,3,5,R…good from a scale running standpoint, more skip grip choices from a chord standpoint.

Here come those “out of order” strings on top to further complicate things (thanks a lot Buddy!)…E,B,D,E,F#,G#,B,E,G#,D#,F# = R,5,b7,R,2-9,3,5,R,3,7,2-9…and we have the presently common I neck, that we call E9…more scale running possibilities, and more grips…also a banjo players delight re rolls.

All was not lost, one pedal could convert it to an A6, so we have a IV6/VIm7 (A6/F#m7) neck…. E,A,C#,E,F#,A,C#,E,A,C#,F# = 5,R,3,5,6-13,R,3,5,R,3,6-13…less skipping, and an F#m7 to boot. Turns out that many E9 players use the A6 neck as home base.

Now for some pedal splitting and adding and we convert the I (E9) neck to a V7/V9 (B7/B9) neck; E,B,C#,D#,F#,A,C#,D#,B,F# = 4-11,R,2-9,3,5,b7,2-9,3,R,5.

The I,IV,V necks were all available, but the mechanics would slow down the scale running and lick flipping, so many of the available chord related changes were not used.

Sweet and pretty went to the Islands (J Byrd). The chord folk took their 6th based tunings and went to Texas to play Western Swing. Nashville embraced Gatling gun music for the E9 PSG sound effects machines.

The above chord related comments were overstated to make the point; that done, let’s see what we can do for Chord charts.

We will start by putting the strings in order of increasing pitch = interval sequential; this will make the inversions more apparent. Just to sweeten the broth, we will add some alternate octave names to the interval listing…we won’t use them here as we are only dealing with the four tone one octave chords.

Realize that we can transport the grips and intervals to any fret, and they will fit the new key.

No changes activated, E is shown as the I (= R) key:
Shown for fret 0.
NO CHANGES____I_CHORDS
Str__note___Interval___M7___M7___M7___7____7
3.__G#_______3-b11___3
1.__F#_______2-9
4.__E________R______R__________R
2.__D#_______7______7_____7_____7
5.__B________5______5_____5_____5_____5
6.__G#_______3-b11________3_____3_____3______3
7.__F#_______2-9
8.__E________R____________R_________R______R
9.__D________b7_______________________b7____b7
10._B________5_______________________________5
Sorry folks, just can't stand the ragged appearence of the formatting...if you want this "stuff" e-mail me and I will send an copy in WORD.

[This message was edited by ed packard on 19 May 2006 at 09:37 AM.]

Jim Cohen · From: Philadelphia, PA

ed packard · From: Show Low AZ

The E9 charts have been cleaned up a bit, and put in a more logical order...I am sure that there are some "stupids" in there, so let me know if you find any. Sorry for the sloppy alignment, but they line up in WORD. Probably some simple fix (font choice?) but it eludes me at the moment.

Jim C...What changed your mind...the banjo? Take two m7b5's and see if the condition improves.

Now I will start the Emmons' 10 string C6 setup charts.

ed packard · From: Show Low AZ

Emmons 10 string C6 tuning and setup:

From a chord standpoint, the C6 layout and setup is a nice orderly thing as compared to E9. Grips to get chords are mostly optional, not necessary. For four tone single octave chords, it is a very nice tuning…plus it expands to 5 & 6 tone chords nicely…It almost makes it to the 13 series tuning structure in places.

The notes given are those for fret 0. You can move the intervals to any fret.
We will first show the result of activated changes in terms of the I chord (= C at fret 0).
Then, we will look at the activated changes in terms of each string as the root for the next 3 or so strings. In some places, we will show 5 & 6 tone chords when they are so juicy as to be irresistible.

NO CHANGES____I CHORDS
Str_note_Interval_6____6___6_____6____6s4
1.__D___2-9
2.__E___3_____________________3
3.__C___R_______________R____R
4.__A___6-13________6___6_____6
5.__G___5______5____5___5____5
6.__E___3______3____3___3__________3
7.__C___R______R___R______________R
8.__A___6-13___6___________________6
9.__F___4-11_______________________4
10._C___R

Sorry folks, just can't stand the ragged appearence of the formatting...if you want this "stuff" e-mail me and I will send an copy in WORD.

[This message was edited by ed packard on 19 May 2006 at 09:38 AM.]

ed packard · From: Show Low AZ

SIERRA 12 string E9/B6 Universal tuning and setup:
Look in the tunings section of the Forum for setups.

This tuning and structure is based upon the E9 and the C6.
The C6 turns out to be one halftone lower = B6.
In general, the E9 changes are on the same pedals and levers as the 10 string E9.
In general, the B6 changes are on the same pedals and levers as the C6.

Both of the D-10 E9/C6=B6 necks have been merged into one neck.

In the E9 chord section, we started with the I,IV,V chords…same here.

Notice that the strings have been placed in the order of ascending pitch.

We will include some chords with more than four tones in this list (just the juicy ones).

We will treat this Universal as two instruments = E9, and then as C6=B6.
Some will want to treat it as one large palette…the chords will be in the same places.

THE E9 SECTION:

NO CHANGES_____I_CHORDS
Str--note-Interval-I\9-IM7------IM9
3.-----G#
1.-----F#--2-9----------------------9
4.-----E---R
2.-----D#-7---------------7--------7
5.-----B---5---------------5--------5
6.-----G#-3---------------3--------3
7.-----F#--2-9-----9
8.-----E---R---------------R-------R
9.-----B--5---------5
10.---G#-3---------3
11.---E---R--------R
12.---B---5
Sorry folks, just can't stand the ragged appearence of the formatting...if you want this "stuff" e-mail me and I will send an copy in WORD.

[This message was edited by ed packard on 19 May 2006 at 09:39 AM.]

ed packard · From: Show Low AZ

THE PST E9/A6/B6/13 SERIES TUNING AND SETUP:
CHORDS OF THE E69 SECTION = I,IV,V NECKS.

A partial list of the 13 series chords was given as the opening post on this thread.

This configuration has 14 strings.
It began as a variation on the SIERRA 12 E9/B6 universal…moved to a modified BILL STAFFORD 14 string…then modified to incorporate the 13 series structure.

The top strings are like those of the Standard 10 string E9, except the D# is tuned C#.
There is no D string in the middle…the D is obtained by lowering the E.
String 12 is a C#.
For our present purpose, the strings are placed in order of ascending frequency.
Compare the results with the 10 string E9, and the 12 string Sierra Universal.

NO CHANGES________I_CHORDS
Str-note-Interval-I6----I6-----I--------I-------I-----I6-----I6-----I6---I69
2.--G#--3--------------------------------------------------------------3
3.--F#--2-9------------------------------------------------------------------9
4.--E---R-------------------------------------------------------R-----R
1.--C#--6-13--------------------------------------------6-----6------6-----6
5.--B---5------------------------------------------------5------5------5----5
6.--G#--3----------------------------------------3------3------3-----------3
7.--F#--2-9
8.--E----R--------------------------------R------R-----R------------------R
9.--B----5-----------------5------5-------5------5
10.-G#--3---------3------3------3-------3
11.-E----R--------R------R------R
12.-C#--6-13-----6------6
13.-B----5--------5
14.-E----R

Sorry folks, just can't stand the ragged appearence of the formatting...if you want this "stuff" e-mail me and I will send an copy in WORD.

[This message was edited by ed packard on 19 May 2006 at 09:40 AM.]

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