F# raise compensators on G lever

Andrew Frost · From: Toronto, Ontario

Ive been exploring ways around the old "2 F#s" issue - having F# in tune as a Maj6 with pedals down A, vs an in tune 9 on the E chord, pedals up ( or as the 5th of B, pedals up etc). For years I was fudging the difference, tuning F# half way between the extremes using a hybrid temperment. But I've been tuning closer to JI more recently and the issue becomes way more noticeable.

I understand a common solution is to tune F# high, and then lower string 1 and/or 7 w compensators in a pedals down scenario. This makes sense but I've been experimenting with an opposite approach and wondering if others have info or experience with something like this:
I've been tuning F# with pedals down with the A chord. F#s are then great in that chord and its variations, but too flat to work in the E and B chords, so Ive been tuning the raise way down on the G lever to about a 15 cent interval. So the only function of that lever is now to raise F#s up slightly to be in tune as 5ths with the B string. For me that's RKL. I no longer have any raises on that lever but the option of having 2 different F#s is proving to be extremely useful. Its still an experiment at this stage, about a month in with this set up but I use it ALL the time...
Ultimately I'd like to have raises on that lever. But I can live without them for now in favour of those valuable F# options.
I think a great solution would be 'feel stop' of some sort on that incremental 15/20c raise, before it progresses to a semitone or wholetone, but I have to figure out a way to do this mechanically.

Tucker Jackson · From: Portland, Oregon, USA

Welcome to the dark side, Andrew. For sure, compensators are a thing of beauty for those of us that don't tune anywhere near Equal Temperment. I compensate the 7th string, since it's the one I tend to use more often in sustained chords where you can really hear if it's out of tune (versus the 1st string which gets a lot of use doing single-note lines that aren't held and sustained in a chord, at least not as often and it's easier to slant the tip of the bar slightly if necassary). Love. The. Compensator.

I guess I don't understand the resistance to setting this up the normal way to compensate automatically when you step on the B pedal (or A pedal, if that's your preference).

The idea that you have to remember to hit a lever and hold it in... it's like, "I figured out that it's good to have brake lights. I know most people have it connected to their brake pedal, but I'm experimenting with having a button on the dash. You have to remember to manually push it when you hit the brake to make the lights go on. Sure, you lose use of that hand to do anything else like turn the wheel (or the ability to use the knee to hit the other knee lever while doing this). Is anybody else doing this?"

No offense intended, and I'm very likely missing something here... because it seems like "all bad, no good." What guitar do you have? It's so easy to set up an automatic compensator on an all-pull guitar. You already have a bellcrank dedicated to compensation and a tuning nut (those can be relocated to work with the B-pedal). You just need to spend $7.50 for a longer pull rod that will reach from the changer to the B-pedal:

https://psgparts.com/Pull-Rods_c7.htm

Spend 10 minutes moving things around on the undercarriage. Then tune up the 7th string at the keyhead to the sharper note to work with pedals up, then tune the compensator's nut to slightly flatten the note for playing pedals-down stuff. Dash-button be gone! Smile

Ian Rae · From: Redditch, England

Because I play a B6 uni I use the "sharp" F# a lot.

I suppose I could tune it flat and have it raise when I lower the Es, but that's a busy lever with a half stop and extra raises might make it stiffer.

So I tune it sharp and have it drop when I use the A or C pedal, and I don't feel a thing.
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Andrew Frost · From: Toronto, Ontario

Ya the brake light analogy is good. ðŸ˜…
I hear what you're saying.
My guitar is a pull/release, with lowering options on 2, 4 and 8 only. I don't think the all pull mechanics would apply unfortunately on this instrument. Its a 2010 ZUM/Stage One. I should ask Doug Earnest who built it what his thoughts are.

It has surprised me how automatic the compensating becomes. When I even think about the B strings there is a knee jerk reaction, literally.

You're right, the lever on the other side is unusable in these moments but it is a compromise afterall. RKR on my guitar lowers 2 only, and I tune it to D, a 4th above A and its then a pure MA3 below that lower F# so when its engaged the lower F# is favourable anyway.

Tucker Jackson · From: Portland, Oregon, USA

Ian Rae · From: Redditch, England

There is no reason why you can't configure a pull-release guitar to lower 7 when you engage A or C.

You could likely connect the spring-loaded lowering crank to the existing pull rods without needing extra ones.
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b0b · From: Cloverdale, CA, USA

For many years I tuned the middle F# with pedals down (flat) to match the C#. I used a compensator to raise it on the E lowers. As for the high F#, I've always tuned it to the zero mark and let cabinet drop/raise take its course. Lately, it seems to me that the centered approach works on the 7th string, too.
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Ian Rae · From: Redditch, England

I've never owned an instrument with enough cabinet drop to be useful that way. Does that make me lucky or not?

[Does having loads of loyalty cards make you really loyal?]
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Make sleeping dogs tell the truth!
Homebuilt keyless U12 7x5, Excel keyless U12 8x8, Williams keyless U12 7x8, Telonics rack and 15" cabs

Andrew Frost · From: Toronto, Ontario

Yes the cab drop does work in a helpful direction. If I tune closer to ET with 3rds generally about-4c in most chord positions, the F# can be tuned straight up. After cab drop it ends up being a touch sharper than ideal as the 6th on the A chord, but workable. Its then a touch flat in the pedals up scenario, also manageable. But neither situation is really ideal.
Ian, the only tunable lowers on my guitar are only strings 2/4/8. I can raise any thing but lowering is not as straight forward.

Andrew Frost · From: Toronto, Ontario

Tucker, Ive been playing about 10 years and its been a steady side thing as a guitar player. But like a lot of folks this shelter-in-place scenario has equated to obscene amounts of practice time which I'm very thankful for. Happy to have the time to explore nuances of tuning and technique.

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