All Those Combinations !

Alan Brookes · From: Brummy living in Southern California

As a 40 yr. player without pedals, about a year ago I decided to take the plunge and buy a pedal steel. Now the first thing I do when I get a new instrument, whether its an accordion or a lute, is start working out the chord permutations in an old notepad.

With a simple 3 pedal instrument with 4 knee-levers, you can use no pedals, A, B or C individually, A+B, A+C, B+C or A+B+C. With the knee-levers you can use no levers, 1, 2, 3 or 4 individually, 1+3, 1+4, 2+3 or 2+4. (I'm assuming not 1+2 which uses the same leg, or 3+4.) Multiply that out and you have 56 combinations, without even moving the bar !

Do pedal players have access to superhuman brain power, or am I missing something ?

I know as a chess player that we tend to consider moves that look reasonable, and discount the obviously idiotic, which reduces the number of move permutations, but the difference between a good player and a grandmaster is that the grandmaster considers moves that others would discount immediately.

I'm playing alone nowadays, in my basement, so I don't get to watch other musicians play. I'm beginning to think that after learning some of the regular licks, people play the pedal steel more by instinct that anything else. Sol Hoopii once advocated that you turn the lights off and practise without looking at the frets. I know I do that while I'm watching the television....

Larry Jamieson · From: Walton, NY USA

Alan, There are a lot of those combinations which NEVER get used, for example pedals A,B and C all at the same time. When you are starting out, it is best to find a good instructor, or some good instructional material to get you pointed in the right direction. You can experiment and find out what combinations of pedals, or pedals and knee levers together work on your guitar. It is an instrument that gives you different ways to play the same notes, so there is a lot to think about, and all the possibilities are not easily learned in a few weeks or months... After 30 + years, I'm still learning! Larry J.

Doug Seymour · From: Jamestown NY USA (deceased)

A & C together?? Are you going to use both feet at the same time?? I doubt it very much. Not many of us, but some like (on E9th) the KLs raising & lowering the Es on opposite knees. Most have them on the same knee. Lots of combinations, but probably not everyone that might be physically possible. I believe you'd find most E9th(Emmons, set up) players use their left foot on the pedals & both knees on the kneee levers, with the right foot on the volume pedal. I never played the Day set up, but I would suppose the same would be true there also. (just KLs might be placed to coinside with the right pedal combinations)

Bo Borland · From: South Jersey -

I would sugest getting a copy of Winnie Winstons book and since you are writing down all the combinations, write down all the chord inversions you can get in the open position using the 4 major grips and pedal +kl combinations. Good Luck

Pat Kelly · From: Wentworthville, New South Wales, Australia

David L. Donald · From: Koh Samui Island, Thailand

Of course you left out
Raise E with P1,
Lower E with P2,
AB with raise or lower D#
and several other common combinations.

Yes it takes a lot of muscle memory entrainment.
But an early set of lessons from a teacher
can get you on track for what to work on 1st.

That 1st few months is mind bending,
but at some point you get a combination epiphany,
and off you go.

Robert Porri · From: Windsor, Connecticut, USA

I've only played PSG a little over 2 years so I guess consider the source. But, rather than feel sort of intimidated (in a way) by so many combinations, I would look at this from the perspective that there are maybe 4 most common ways to get what you only had one way to get to previously (not counting different grips). So, for each of the pedal or knee combinations you learn, you are doubling or tripling or quadrupling the possibilities you had before. And moving between them, I think gives the Pedal Steel a large amount of it's appeal. Tons can be done with no pedals also as you know. So just take each different combination as a sort of little gift and have a ball not worrying about the other 50 obscure ways things might be achieved. I did however enjoy and understand your chess comment and to an extent I think you're right about those who think "out of the box".

Bob P.

Dave Mudgett · From: Central Pennsylvania and Gallatin, Tennessee

Actually, if you include A+C and A+B+C, there are 8*8 = 64 combinations.

Here's my combinatorial analysis for "normal" E9 playing (no two-footed pedal movements):

Pedals: none, A, B, C, A+B, B+C, which gives 6 combinations.

Levers: Each pedal combination may be used in conjunction with any one or two knee levers. There are 4 single lever combinations. Because one can't hit two levers with the same knee, there are only 4 allowable 2-lever combinations instead of 4 choose 2 = 6, as you say. This gives a total of 8 allowable KL combinations.

So, the total number of "regular" combinations is 6*8 = 48, not 56.

Personally, I would immediately chuck the idea of working through all these combinations. First get down with no pedals, A, B, and A+B. You need to integrate them and make them sound good. Work at one fret, then figure out the inversions at different frets, figure out what to do with the different string grips, and so on. There is a lot you can do with just these, and it takes some time to get these movements smooth.

Then B+C, and integrating the E=>F and E=>Eb levers are important next steps. Of these, to me, the critically important combinations are A+F, B+Eb, A+B+Eb, Eb and F alone. Again, figure out the inversions at different frets and make them smooth. You have plenty of work to get to this point, IMO.

The other two levers often vary somewhat, so it's harder to assess where to go with those, but most guitars have A, B, C, F, and Eb levers.

Of course, this is not the only way to go, but I think is a pretty standard way to approach it. One can make an amazing amount of music with just those combinations, especially if you consider that you already play non-pedal steel right now. Winnie Winston's book has already been mentioned - it is an excellent roadmap, IMO. A number of introductory VHS/DVD videos are available. I like Tim McCasland's 2 introductory videos, Jeff Newman's videos, and Bobbe Seymour's videos.

Parr Bryan · From: Nacogdoches,Texas

Chord permutations, the basics:
Key of C
8th fret open
F same fret with A&B pedal down,
G7,same fret B pedal and knee level that lowers E strings. G chord up 2 frets (10th) with pedals A&B.

C chord @ 11th fret with A pedal and kneelever that raises Es.
Find your root notes and you got a start.
I think I got these right without a steel in front of me. If not someone speak up!
------------------

[This message was edited by Parr Bryan on 01 May 2006 at 12:53 PM.]

Ray Minich · From: Bradford, Pa. Frozen Tundra

Alan, a quick hint, if you used the "A' tuning in your non-pedal days... (i.e. A C# E)
You have the A tuning on strings 3, 4, and 5 with A & B down (A chord at fret 0). Otherwise it's the E chord on 3, 4 and 5 with no pedals.

Bobby Lee · From: Cloverdale, California, USA

I think that a standard guitarist with 4 fingers on the neck covering about 5 frets of 6 strings has a lot more combinations at his disposal than a pedal steel player.

Gene Jones · From: Oklahoma City, OK USA, (deceased)

Yes...but only if he used his thumb!

Alan Brookes · From: Brummy living in Southern California

Yes, it's all good advice.

I should mention that I didn't give up the non-pedal steel, I play both. Over the last year I've gotten used to the basic chords and use of the pedals and knee levers, but I have to think a lot, and sometimes I do a lot of bar moving, which is what I'm used to, instead of using the pedals. It's the thinking that slows me down. When I play the guitar, banjo or mandolin I don't think of what I'm playing, I just do it. It's like a typewriter: if someone asks you where the J key is you have to look, but if someone asked you to type John you would do it without looking at the keyboard.

So when the song requires a switch to a subdominant, instead of depressing pedals 1 and 2 I find myslef forgetting I'm not playing a Dobro and sliding up five frets. Of course, it still works, because anything you can play on a non-pedal instrument you can play on one with pedals.

Maybe I should stop playing the non-pedal instruments for a while, so that I can get rid of my bad habits, but, having said that, I'm in the process of building my 15th lap steel.....

David Doggett · Posted 2 May 2006 10:50 pm

Alan, those aren't bad habits, they are just different habits. If you play with the pedals and levers for awhile, you can develop habits on them that are just as instinctive as going up 5 frets. The concept of pockets is critical for pedal steel. There is a pocket at the I chord fret. Mash the A and B pedals and get the IV chord, move up two frets and you have the V chord. Let off the pedals and go back two frets to return to the I chord. Press the A pedal and get the relative minor. Press the B and C pedals and get the IIm. Moving between those five chords can become instinctive.

Up at the V chord fret there is another pocket. Press the A and B pedals and you have the I chord, but with the ability to get that characteristic pedal-mashing gliss going into it. Let off the pedals and drop back two frets and you have the IV chord. Move up two frets for the V, then hit the pedals for the I again.

Those are the two main pockets for Major keys. You should get instinctive with those changes before worrying about the myriad other possibilities.

There are also an infinite number of possible chords on a piano. But nobody tries to learn them all at once. First you learn to play simple stuff in the key of C, with no flats or sharps - I, IV, V7, VIm - four simple chords. Then you learn the key of G, with one flat, and then the key of F, with one sharp. You don't start out trying to play Rachmaninoff's Prelude in C# minor, with 5 sharps and some double sharps, and 5-note chords in each hand, mostly on black keys, with your hands overlapping.

So sure, there are a huge number of chords possible on pedal steel. But most of them are irrelevant to the standard stuff that will get you through 90% of songs. There are a lot of words in an unabridged dictionary. You probably don't know most of them. But you can still talk on most any subject that comes up.

Tony Prior · From: Charlotte NC

thnak you bobby Lee..
A 6 string guitarest has endless combinations available to him..

in the words of the late/great Joe Pass..

"Yeh, they may all be legal chords, but you should only play the ones that actually sound good and fit the music" !

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