Fender 400 lowering limit problem

Jim Sliff · From: Lawndale California, USA

A problem just cropped up on my 400 - the first string is lowered a full step by a left knee lever; a half step by pedal 6 using a barrel stop. Been working fine. I noticed tonight that the knee wasn't lowering the string all the way - checked underneath and the loop is pulling the finger far enough ( I can get it to go all the way to the stop if need be) but with about 1/4" of pull left on the bottom end the string finger stops moving forward. The note ends up about 30 cents sharp.

I can feel it hesitate just a tad as it hits the point where the upper part of the changer stops moving - then the lever keeps going but all it does is stretch out the return spring. The barrel stop has nothing to do with it - I loosened it to check things out so it affects nothing. the raise (a half-step on pedal 2) works fine.

Any clues? As I said it was working fine until tonight. I have no idea what's going on....can't see any visual impediments or anything rubbing.

Ian Finlay · From: Kenton, UK

String ball end dropped into the changer? Maybe pop off the string, pull the bridge rocker and blow some air in to see if anything rattles.

Ian

Jim Sliff · From: Lawndale California, USA

No, it was just entirely rebuilt and completely cleaned and lubed. Nothing "happened" other than this change stopped working properly.

Donny Hinson · From: Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.

Never mind.

[This message was edited by Donny Hinson on 27 April 2006 at 03:49 AM.]

Jim Sliff · From: Lawndale California, USA

that doesn't seem to be related - the finger moves fine on the lower side. It's the part attached to the string that isn't moving all the way forward. The finger pulled by the cable loop keeps going - but the upper part of the changer stops. Just on that one string.

Peter · Posted 26 Apr 2006 11:46 pm

I have no idea, but maybe this drawing might help?

Ian Finlay · From: Kenton, UK

Is the upper part of the changer binding on the part next to it? If you apply a little leverage from behind the bridge part does it lower the rest of the way, or is it stuck?

Jim Sliff · From: Lawndale California, USA

It doesn't seem to be binding - it just simply stops.

I guess I'll have to pull the cables, springs and bottom plate to look inside. I can't think of any other way to look at it.

David Wren · From: Placerville, California, USA

Jim, probably not this, but older strings will require longer travel... might try a new set?

------------------
Dave Wren
'96 Carter S12-E9/B6,7X7; Twin Session 500s; Hilton Pedal; Black Box
www.ameechapman.com

Jim Sliff · From: Lawndale California, USA

Worth a try. Just in case something went weird mechanically that I can't figure out, what effect does a change in string gages have? If I went heavier or lighter could that help?

Peter · Posted 27 Apr 2006 9:26 pm

Jim, I had a similar problem when my 1000 arrived last month.
When the guitar was upside down in the case, all pedals worked perfectly. However, when the guitar was upright on its legs, the A pedal would only travel half-way, with a very positive stop. I could not move it beyond this point. I checked everything visible and there was no binding etc.

After the third attempt, putting it in its case and then putting it upright, I heard a loud "snap" from the changer and the guitar was fine after that. No more problem.
I have no idea what it was, but it could be that something was sliding sideways inside the changer, catching maybe the wrong stopscrew or something similar.

I know that does not really help you, but I thought I just relay the story and post a drawing.

Good luck, maybe turning the guitar upside down a couple of times and moving the pedals might help.

------------------
Peter den Hartogh
1978 Emmons S10 P/P; 1977 Sho-Bud D10 ProIII Custom;
1975 Fender Artist S10; Remington U12; 1947 Gibson BR4;

Jim Sliff · From: Lawndale California, USA

Actually it's been turned over several times in the last few days while I was adding the 9th pedal (!) and rearanging some cables to avoid binding on the pulleys. No "snaps", darn it.

Remembered I changed strings about 10 days ago - doubt that's it. Still curious about the string gage question - I've searched and oddly found answers BOTH ways. So what is it, really - on plain strings, do thinner or thicker ones have a shorter pull to hit the same note?

Peter · Posted 29 Apr 2006 5:10 am

If you want to drop a "plain" string 6 a whole tone, and you do not have enough travel, you should replace it with a "wound" string 6.

This wound string has a THINNER core and this will give you more pitch change with the same lever movement.

Don Blood · From: Illinois, USA

I think it is just the opposite. I changed strings a while back,and went from a solid 6th to a wound, and could not get enough travel. I put a solid 6th on, and now I can get the full change.

[This message was edited by Don Blood on 29 April 2006 at 09:48 AM.]

Jim Sliff · From: Lawndale California, USA

Well, there you go - both answers.

But either way, it's irrelevant - guys, if you read my post we're talking about the FIRST string. It's not wound....

Peter · Posted 29 Apr 2006 12:40 pm

I might be wrong

Don Blood · From: Illinois, USA

Jim,
I realize you are talking about the 1st string, but the same principal applies if you are looking to have a greater pitch change with the same limited movement, It would be a larger string. However, that probably won't solve your problem, because you wouldn't want to put a heavy enough gage string on the first position to make that big of a difference, it wouldn't be practical. Hope you solve your problem.

basilh · From: United Kingdom

I don't want to change the subject, but when I saw string GAUGES being mentioned I thought I might interject.

I have found that with the Fender newer type of roller bridge, the the heaviest possible string gauge that can be obtained without constant breakage, is the most reliable way to go.. The guitar stays in tune better and the pedals respond MUCH quicker, it's a more stable environment, especially with regard to returning to pitch..
Now you don't have to pay ANY attention to what I'm saying, but I have been playing fender pedal steels for 43 years
JMHO FWIW.
Baz

Jim Sliff · From: Lawndale California, USA

Thanks - I think I'll try kicking it up a gage and see what happens.

Forum Index > Pedal Steel		Next oldest topic :: Next newest topic