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Topic: Sho-Bud rack & barrel - RKR string 9 (half-stop) question |
Brad Sarno
From:
St. Louis, MO USA
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Posted 6 May 2020 11:00 am |
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My little '69 S-10 Sho-Bud rack & barrel just got its 3rd knee lever added yesterday. I've got it dropping string 2 and I'm using string 9 for the half-stop feel so now my RKR is behaving like a normal steel. That part works great. But string 9 doesn't quite land in tune, of course. What tricks have people tried regarding helping string 9 land in tune 1/2 step down from D?
I recall someone once said I could try various string gauges for string 9 and that may help get it closer. I don't expect much from this mechanism, but it would be nice to have both strings 2 and 9 land right where I want them.
Thanks,
Brad |
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James Collett
From:
San Dimas, CA
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Posted 6 May 2020 12:37 pm
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I remember Ricky Davis writing one time about adjusting return and helper spring tensions to get timing right on pulls on barrel-era Sho-Buds. I'll see if I can find the post.
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James Collett |
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James Collett
From:
San Dimas, CA
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Ricky Davis
From:
Bertram, Texas USA
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Posted 6 May 2020 1:37 pm
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Well to time those two strings out.....first; make sure there is NO RAISE spring on the 2nd and 9th finger(that's the little flimsy spring that hooks to the bracket mounted to the body of the guitar). Now; tighten up the lower/return spring on just the 9th changer; all the way up...so it has great tension for when the rod hits half way down on 2nd string.
I tune my 2nd string to D# at 439 and I tune my 9th string to D 440. Tune that 2nd string where it stops on C# at 439. and the 9th stirng D should go to 439 C#....now you should have a nice D 440 half way feel.
Ricky
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Ricky Davis
Email Ricky: sshawaiian2362@gmail.com |
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richard burton
From:
Britain
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Posted 6 May 2020 9:02 pm
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| On most steels, the 9th ends up flat when it's set to act as a feel stop for the 2nd string. Usually, an extra rod from the lowering lever to the raise hole in the 9th finger solves the problem, if you have a spare raise hole in the 9th finger. |
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Brad Sarno
From:
St. Louis, MO USA
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Posted 12 May 2020 9:30 am
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I got the RKR going. The half-stop feel is absolutely perfect, very firm and crisp, as good as I've felt on any guitar ever. Thanks Ricky for the spring advice. That seemed to help with the feel and tension nicely. Not sure if it did much for my timing issues.
String 9 lands about 25 cents TOO FLAT. So if I want to mess with other string gauges, do I go with a heavier or lighter guage to make the string detune LESS given the same physical/mechanical stop point. I want the string pitch change to be LESS responsive.
Thanks all!
Brad
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Ricky Davis
From:
Bertram, Texas USA
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Posted 12 May 2020 10:10 am
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To change string guage to not pull as far/quick...go lighter...so .032w. that will cut some cents off that current pull for that string. BUT....I see a extra spring on the rod with shaft collar for tension before the rack for string 9....> What is THAT???? ha..
Ricky
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Ricky Davis
Email Ricky: sshawaiian2362@gmail.com |
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Brad Sarno
From:
St. Louis, MO USA
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Posted 12 May 2020 11:40 am
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| Ricky Davis wrote: |
BUT....I see a extra spring on the rod with shaft collar for tension before the rack for string 9....> What is THAT???? ha..
Ricky |
I threw that on there because when RKR was disengaged and gave that slack on string 9, the barrel pin would back off the rack and lose it's alignment. That spring there simply keeps the barrel snug up against the rack and the spring-pin in place while lever is relaxed. Seemed necessary (but probably not) and doesn't affect performance as far as I can tell. So instead of the barrel backing away from the rack and losing pin alignment, now the rod backs off the changer finger just a tiny bit when lever is not engaged.
Thanks on the string gauge tip!! I'll give it a shot. I don't expect perfection but if I can get it in the ballpark, I'll be fine.
B |
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Ricky Davis
From:
Bertram, Texas USA
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Posted 12 May 2020 2:12 pm
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OK cool Brad; smart move in keeping the barrel in one position.
Sounds like you're onto it bro...good work.
Ricky
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Ricky Davis
Email Ricky: sshawaiian2362@gmail.com |
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Brad Sarno
From:
St. Louis, MO USA
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Posted 13 May 2020 7:05 am
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Thanks Ricky!! You're a generous wealth of wisdom! Much appreciated.
B |
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Ricky Davis
From:
Bertram, Texas USA
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Posted 13 May 2020 11:33 am
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OH you're more than welcome Brad with anything I can help Sho~bud wise. Since you're so nice in thanking me; I found my "Springs secrets tutorial" on how I balance the fingers to go and come back the most efficient ways. It starts with me answering a question from a poster on how important are the springs..>>Ha.....and sorry if you read it before; but here it is again>
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Yes all those lower springs serve a purpose…..not just in the lowering.
They are there also to stabilize the lower section when you raise a string.
Take for instance.
If you raise your 1st string say a whole tone on E9th…..>if you tighten the lower spring almost all the way…..>you will find that that raise with happen much easier and sooner; as making that lower section more tight….>the raise section will move more freely.
AS for the strings that lower…..Yes you want the lower springs just tight enough so that the lower will come back to pitch….> and maybe a couple turns just tighter….so that it will not have to be adjusted again.
Also take for instance the 3rd and 6th string raise on the B pedal…..>you’ll notice that they don’t particularly move together; as it takes more travel and throw to pull the 3rd string up to pitch than the 6th string.
So to make them pull more even…..Loosen the lower spring on the 6th string half way….and tighten the lower spring on the 3rd string almost all the way and leave the raise spring on….>so with that what you are doing is stabilizing that 3rd string lower section very tight…so that the raise on the 3rd will happen more quickly and then it might move with the now lazier 6th string more so and taking the raise spring off the 6th string helps almost perfectly....but for sure if you use a .012p for the 3rd and .022w for the 6th; then they become dead perfect…..>make sense???
Also another trick……on those little Raise springs that are next to the body and attach to the raise portion of the finger and onto a bracket on the body of the guitar.
Those help strings raise…..so have them on the ones that raise…….and if you don’t have them on the ones that lower….>than of course the lower will happen more freely and moreso……>so here’s another trick I have with them.
Take the 4th string and 8th string lowers…>well you’ll notice that they don’t particularly move together also…..cause the 4th string needs more throw/distance than the 8th. So to get them to move together better…..I like to take off the raise spring of the 4th…..and leave it on the 8th…..>so now the 4th will lower quicker and the 8th will drag behind a little cause the raise spring is on 8th and not on the 4th and the 8th will drag behind because of the raise spring inhibiting the lower……so now they will move better together….
Ok there’s your little “Spring†lesson for the day…
Have fun.
Ricky
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Ricky Davis
Email Ricky: sshawaiian2362@gmail.com |
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Jamie Howarth
From:
Massachusetts, USA
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Posted 22 Oct 2020 7:40 am
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| Brad Sarno wrote: |
I got the RKR going. The half-stop feel is absolutely perfect, very firm and crisp, as good as I've felt on any guitar ever. Thanks Ricky for the spring advice ....
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Hmm. Based on that pic by racks are all backwards. barrel contacts the flat side. No wonder it slips.
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I'll know I'm playing good when the dog stops howling. |
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Rick Abbott
From:
Indiana, USA
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Posted 22 Oct 2020 3:07 pm
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| Jamie Howarth wrote: |
| Brad Sarno wrote: |
I got the RKR going. The half-stop feel is absolutely perfect, very firm and crisp, as good as I've felt on any guitar ever. Thanks Ricky for the spring advice ....
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Hmm. Based on that pic by racks are all backwards. barrel contacts the flat side. No wonder it slips. |
Here's a thread discussing the orientation of the racks:
https://bb.steelguitarforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=248229&highlight=rack+barrel+open+side
There are others as well.
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RICK ABBOTT
Sho~Bud D-10 Professional #7962
Remington T-8, Sehy #112
1975 Peavey Pacer |
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